3 ms·

That doesn't seem quite so straightforward actually. The Nazi regime wasn't a thing yet, as the Nazis had yet to seize power. How obvious was it at the time to

by ummonk 7y ago

That doesn't seem quite so straightforward actually. The Nazi regime wasn't a thing yet, as the Nazis had yet to seize power. How obvious was it at the time to Germans that the Nazis would turn out to be so horrible?

InTheArena 7y ago
Very. The nazis did exactly what they said they would do prior to this election - they rearmed Germany, killed the communists and marginalized all other parties, acquired “living room” in the east, expelled Jews from berlin (and then murdered them en mass) in a way that was completely consistent with what Nazi press organs such as the stormer and mein kampf told Germans they would. People make a mistake comparing the nazis with present day political parties or characters like Trump. They were not - they were extraordinarily violent and racist by the standards of the day, to say nothing about modern day. They did little to hide it.
DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
They were a rabidly anti-Semitic party whose central principles were racial purity and complete submission to a single cult-like leader, a guy who wrote a book calling for Germany to conquer "living space" for ethnic Germans in Eastern Europe. This party had a paramilitary organization that beat up its political opponents in the streets. It wasn't difficult to see that the Nazis were horrible.
vkou 7y ago
It would have been obvious to anyone who actually read Mein Kampf.
- oh_sigh 7y ago
  Too bad it is essentially banned in Germany
  - selimthegrim 7y ago
    I'm pretty sure you can go to any German university library and read it for educational purposes
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - stordoff 7y ago
    It's sold on Amazon.de, at least in annotated form[1], and furthermore is quite trivial to find online - the Internet Archive has multiple versions[2]. [1] https://www.amazon.de/dp/3981405234 https://www.amazon.de/dp/3981405234 [2] https://ia800301.us.archive.org/3/items/Hitler-Adolf-Mein-Kampf/HitlerAdolf-MeinKampf-Band1Und2173.Auflage1936828S.ScanFraktur.pdf https://ia800301.us.archive.org/3/items/Hitler-Adolf-Mein-Ka... / https://ia802801.us.archive.org/9/items/Hitler-Adolf-Mein-Kampf-Text/HitlerAdolf-MeinKampf-Band1Und2855.Auflage1943818S.Text.pdf https://ia802801.us.archive.org/9/items/Hitler-Adolf-Mein-Ka...
usrusr 7y ago
Early support only makes it worse. Later support might reasonably be explained away as pragmatism (think von Braun at Mittelbau, who, according to the accepted American interpretation, just cared a bit too little about how exactly he would to get ahead with his goal of shooting stuff to space), but early support is pure embracing of ideology and ruthlessness (see sibling comments).
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  I wonder how Oberth's record compares?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
codesushi42 7y ago
Have you even heard about the Beer Hall Putsch? It was pretty clear from that incident that Hitler was campaigning for violence long before the first election the Nazis ran in.
stordoff 7y ago
There were certainly very public signs before that. Hitler had _tried_ to seize power: > The Beer Hall Putsch was a failed coup d'état by the Nazi Party leader Adolf Hitler to seize power in Munich, Bavaria, which took place in November in 1923. 603 SA [Sturmabteilung - Storm Detachment, the Nazi's original paramilitary unit] surrounded the beer hall. Hitler, surrounded by his associates, advanced through the crowded auditorium. Hitler fired a shot into the ceiling and jumped on a chair yelling: "The national revolution has broken out! The hall is filled with six hundred men. Nobody is allowed to leave." He went on to state that the Bavarian government was deposed and declared the formation of a new government. > Following the initial failure of the putsch, approximately two thousand Nazis were marching to the Feldherrnhalle, when they were confronted by a police cordon, which resulted in the deaths of 16 Nazis and four police officers. Hitler, who was wounded during the clash, escaped immediate arrest; after two days, he was arrested and charged with treason. > The putsch brought Hitler to the attention of the German nation and generated front-page headlines in newspapers around the world. Hitler was found guilty of treason and sentenced to five years in Landsberg Prison.[1] Mein Kampf has had also been published by 1926, sections of which gave a rather stark insight into Hitler's thought process: > At the beginning of the War, or even during the War, if twelve or fifteen thousand of these Jews who were corrupting the nation had been forced to submit to poison-gas, just as hundreds of thousands of our best German workers from every social stratum and from every trade and calling had to face it in the field, then the millions of sacrifices made at the front would not have been in vain. On the contrary: If twelve thousand of these malefactors had been eliminated in proper time probably the lives of a million decent men, who would be of value to Germany in the future, might have been saved.[2] [1] Paraphrased from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch [2] James Murphy translation - http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200601.txt http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200601.txt ; the original German can be found at "Hätte man zu Kriegsbeginn..." in this document: https://ia802801.us.archive.org/9/items/Hitler-Adolf-Mein-Kampf-Text/HitlerAdolf-MeinKampf-Band1Und2855.Auflage1943818S.Text.pdf https://ia802801.us.archive.org/9/items/Hitler-Adolf-Mein-Ka...

by ummonk 7y ago

InTheArena 7y ago

Very. The nazis did exactly what they said they would do prior to this election - they rearmed Germany, killed the communists and marginalized all other parties, acquired “living room” in the east, expelled Jews from berlin (and then murdered them en mass) in a way that was completely consistent with what Nazi press organs such as the stormer and mein kampf told Germans they would. People make a mistake comparing the nazis with present day political parties or characters like Trump. They were not - they were extraordinarily violent and racist by the standards of the day, to say nothing about modern day. They did little to hide it.

DiogenesKynikos 7y ago

They were a rabidly anti-Semitic party whose central principles were racial purity and complete submission to a single cult-like leader, a guy who wrote a book calling for Germany to conquer "living space" for ethnic Germans in Eastern Europe. This party had a paramilitary organization that beat up its political opponents in the streets. It wasn't difficult to see that the Nazis were horrible.

vkou 7y ago

It would have been obvious to anyone who actually read Mein Kampf.

oh_sigh 7y ago
Too bad it is essentially banned in Germany
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure you can go to any German university library and read it for educational purposes
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- stordoff 7y ago
  It's sold on Amazon.de, at least in annotated form[1], and furthermore is quite trivial to find online - the Internet Archive has multiple versions[2]. [1] https://www.amazon.de/dp/3981405234 https://www.amazon.de/dp/3981405234 [2] https://ia800301.us.archive.org/3/items/Hitler-Adolf-Mein-Kampf/HitlerAdolf-MeinKampf-Band1Und2173.Auflage1936828S.ScanFraktur.pdf https://ia800301.us.archive.org/3/items/Hitler-Adolf-Mein-Ka... / https://ia802801.us.archive.org/9/items/Hitler-Adolf-Mein-Kampf-Text/HitlerAdolf-MeinKampf-Band1Und2855.Auflage1943818S.Text.pdf https://ia802801.us.archive.org/9/items/Hitler-Adolf-Mein-Ka...

usrusr 7y ago

Early support only makes it worse. Later support might reasonably be explained away as pragmatism (think von Braun at Mittelbau, who, according to the accepted American interpretation, just cared a bit too little about how exactly he would to get ahead with his goal of shooting stuff to space), but early support is pure embracing of ideology and ruthlessness (see sibling comments).

selimthegrim 7y ago
I wonder how Oberth's record compares?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

codesushi42 7y ago

Have you even heard about the Beer Hall Putsch? It was pretty clear from that incident that Hitler was campaigning for violence long before the first election the Nazis ran in.

stordoff 7y ago

There were certainly very public signs before that. Hitler had _tried_ to seize power: > The Beer Hall Putsch was a failed coup d'état by the Nazi Party leader Adolf Hitler to seize power in Munich, Bavaria, which took place in November in 1923. 603 SA [Sturmabteilung - Storm Detachment, the Nazi's original paramilitary unit] surrounded the beer hall. Hitler, surrounded by his associates, advanced through the crowded auditorium. Hitler fired a shot into the ceiling and jumped on a chair yelling: "The national revolution has broken out! The hall is filled with six hundred men. Nobody is allowed to leave." He went on to state that the Bavarian government was deposed and declared the formation of a new government. > Following the initial failure of the putsch, approximately two thousand Nazis were marching to the Feldherrnhalle, when they were confronted by a police cordon, which resulted in the deaths of 16 Nazis and four police officers. Hitler, who was wounded during the clash, escaped immediate arrest; after two days, he was arrested and charged with treason. > The putsch brought Hitler to the attention of the German nation and generated front-page headlines in newspapers around the world. Hitler was found guilty of treason and sentenced to five years in Landsberg Prison.[1] Mein Kampf has had also been published by 1926, sections of which gave a rather stark insight into Hitler's thought process: > At the beginning of the War, or even during the War, if twelve or fifteen thousand of these Jews who were corrupting the nation had been forced to submit to poison-gas, just as hundreds of thousands of our best German workers from every social stratum and from every trade and calling had to face it in the field, then the millions of sacrifices made at the front would not have been in vain. On the contrary: If twelve thousand of these malefactors had been eliminated in proper time probably the lives of a million decent men, who would be of value to Germany in the future, might have been saved.[2] [1] Paraphrased from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch [2] James Murphy translation - http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200601.txt http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200601.txt ; the original German can be found at "Hätte man zu Kriegsbeginn..." in this document: https://ia802801.us.archive.org/9/items/Hitler-Adolf-Mein-Kampf-Text/HitlerAdolf-MeinKampf-Band1Und2855.Auflage1943818S.Text.pdf https://ia802801.us.archive.org/9/items/Hitler-Adolf-Mein-Ka...