4 ms·

I'm a bit confused, here. (I went and looked at the original paper.) They estimated information density for each of the subject languages as a whole, on average

by tkfu 7y ago

I'm a bit confused, here. (I went and looked at the original paper.) They estimated information density for each of the subject languages as a whole, on average: > In parallel, from independently available written corpora in these languages, we estimated each language’s information density (ID) as the syllable conditional entropy to take word-internal syllable-bigram dependencies into account. But the experiment uses the same text translated into each language! Why introduce this extra variable (and source of error) of estimated language-wide information density, if you are controlling your experiment such that you have the exact same information encoded in each language? That is to say, why use an _estimated_ information density when you could measure it exactly for the texts that are being spoken? Or, conversely, why go to all the trouble of having the speakers read the same text translated into each language, if you aren't going to make use of that symmetry?

rocqua 7y ago
Good question! I suppose that the experiment wants to capture the actual 'information density' of the language, and hence looks at the full language. Then, they want to avoid any modification in speech rate due to the semantics of the spoken text. This does not make sense for a hypothesis where the actual bit-rate of speech tends towards 39 b/s. That is, when your text happens to convey more bits, you slow down. However, for an alternative hypothesis, this design does make sense. The idea here is that a language naturally converges to a speech-rate that gives 39 b/s. The idea here is that the actual speech-rate is much more constant, and just drops until it becomes too fast. For that, I'd argue you don't want the mean bit-rate but something like the 90th percentile bit-rate. Because it seems to me that speech-rate that is 'too fast' more than 10% of the time would not really be natural.
canjobear 7y ago
Information depends on probability. If something is very probable then it doesn’t have much information (because you already saw it coming). If something is improbable then it has a lot of information. In the paper they want to know how much information is in a syllable in context. To do that they need to know the probability of each syllable given the previous syllable. To estimate that probability distribution, you need to look at a lot of text, much more than just the passages that the authors used to measure speech rate.

by tkfu 7y ago

rocqua 7y ago

Good question! I suppose that the experiment wants to capture the actual 'information density' of the language, and hence looks at the full language. Then, they want to avoid any modification in speech rate due to the semantics of the spoken text. This does not make sense for a hypothesis where the actual bit-rate of speech tends towards 39 b/s. That is, when your text happens to convey more bits, you slow down. However, for an alternative hypothesis, this design does make sense. The idea here is that a language naturally converges to a speech-rate that gives 39 b/s. The idea here is that the actual speech-rate is much more constant, and just drops until it becomes too fast. For that, I'd argue you don't want the mean bit-rate but something like the 90th percentile bit-rate. Because it seems to me that speech-rate that is 'too fast' more than 10% of the time would not really be natural.

canjobear 7y ago

Information depends on probability. If something is very probable then it doesn’t have much information (because you already saw it coming). If something is improbable then it has a lot of information. In the paper they want to know how much information is in a syllable in context. To do that they need to know the probability of each syllable given the previous syllable. To estimate that probability distribution, you need to look at a lot of text, much more than just the passages that the authors used to measure speech rate.