5 ms·

TL;DR: the car battery was dead

by minutillo 7y ago

jpindar 7y ago
Can you tell me exactly where you saw that? I don't see it.
- code_devil 7y ago
  “or when the vehicle battery dies. That last scenario was the one my family and I found ourselves in, though we did not know it at the time.”
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
braythwayt 7y ago
That's actually a problem with all modern cars: If the battery dies, the key fob won't open the door. In fact, if the battery dies in the car or the fob, you can't open the door. But, there is a mechanical backup with an ordinary car. In my 2012 Volvo, I can open the driver's door with the mechanical key. If the fob is ded, I can physically insert it and start the car. If the car is also dead, I have to sort that out to drive it, obviously. I like to MTB and I used to climb, so I carry a backup battery that can start the engine if need be. But I appreciate that with a ZipCar, the whole point is that you don't need to go somewhere and pick up a mechanical key. So it's really the same risk profile as if I were to drive around with the key fob, but leave the mechanical key at home. The other worrisome thing is if a car is designed that it needs the Internet to start. If you drive it somewhere remote, you have a problem. Or if there is a service outage, you have a problem. If I buy another car, it will probably brag thatI can use my phone as my key. I will still want to carry the mechanical key, but my phone will then become a single point of failure. With my fob, and my 2012 car, I can start the car even if the fob battery dies. But if my phone dies, I will be SOL. Luckily, said backup battery that I carry in my car has a USB port to recharge my phone. But even then, what if the network is down? Am I to trust Bluetooth to do its thing? These failure modes require some thinking through before going anywhere remote. I'd want to work all this out before taking another driving holiday with my family.
- baroffoos 7y ago
  If the battery is flat on the car then you are still pretty much out of luck even if you can get in. The only advantage to being able to open it is to use it as shelter in a emergency situation
  - ebg13 7y ago
    > If the battery is flat on the car then you are still pretty much out of luck even if you can get in. With an EV yes, but not with an ICE. Just keep a jump box in your trunk.
    - williamstein 7y ago
      These "jump boxes" are amazing! I used to keep big jumper cables and have AAA in case of a dead battery. Last time AAA came (after I waited hours...), they just pulled out a little "jump box" and instantly started my car. I found and bought a random one on Amazon (there are dozens -- https://www.amazon.com/s?k=car+jumpstart https://www.amazon.com/s?k=car+jumpstart). It's very small, can also be used to charge a cell phone, as a flashlight, etc., and really works. Every ICE should have one of these in the trunk.
      - pdkl95 7y ago
        Note that the battery in a "jump box" is probably capable of discharging a dangerous amounts of energy at very high current. BigClive measured[1] over >500A when he tried to discharge one of these batteries, which didn't actually work. The internal Li plates probably separated, breaking the circuit before fully discharging. After starting to disassemble the battery and realizing the that the plates had separated he attached a voltmeter and measured a full 3.6V across the supposedly-discharged, partially disassembled battery (squeezing the battery with his hands, "This still is fully charged, but it's just puffed up... that's a bit scary." Later, after the Li plates start changing color (!) - probably metallic Li starting to rapidly oxidize - they spontaneously ignited (pyrophoric). The benefits of having a spare "jump box" in the trunk are obvious, but it's important to remember that this means carrying a dangerous amount of energy in form that is a very serious fire risk if anything damaged the battery. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tGK1nqXr28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tGK1nqXr28

TL;DR: the car battery was dead

jpindar 7y ago

Can you tell me exactly where you saw that? I don't see it.

code_devil 7y ago
“or when the vehicle battery dies. That last scenario was the one my family and I found ourselves in, though we did not know it at the time.”
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

braythwayt 7y ago

That's actually a problem with all modern cars: If the battery dies, the key fob won't open the door. In fact, if the battery dies in the car or the fob, you can't open the door. But, there is a mechanical backup with an ordinary car. In my 2012 Volvo, I can open the driver's door with the mechanical key. If the fob is ded, I can physically insert it and start the car. If the car is also dead, I have to sort that out to drive it, obviously. I like to MTB and I used to climb, so I carry a backup battery that can start the engine if need be. But I appreciate that with a ZipCar, the whole point is that you don't need to go somewhere and pick up a mechanical key. So it's really the same risk profile as if I were to drive around with the key fob, but leave the mechanical key at home. The other worrisome thing is if a car is designed that it needs the Internet to start. If you drive it somewhere remote, you have a problem. Or if there is a service outage, you have a problem. If I buy another car, it will probably brag thatI can use my phone as my key. I will still want to carry the mechanical key, but my phone will then become a single point of failure. With my fob, and my 2012 car, I can start the car even if the fob battery dies. But if my phone dies, I will be SOL. Luckily, said backup battery that I carry in my car has a USB port to recharge my phone. But even then, what if the network is down? Am I to trust Bluetooth to do its thing? These failure modes require some thinking through before going anywhere remote. I'd want to work all this out before taking another driving holiday with my family.

baroffoos 7y ago
If the battery is flat on the car then you are still pretty much out of luck even if you can get in. The only advantage to being able to open it is to use it as shelter in a emergency situation
- ebg13 7y ago
  > If the battery is flat on the car then you are still pretty much out of luck even if you can get in. With an EV yes, but not with an ICE. Just keep a jump box in your trunk.
  - williamstein 7y ago
    These "jump boxes" are amazing! I used to keep big jumper cables and have AAA in case of a dead battery. Last time AAA came (after I waited hours...), they just pulled out a little "jump box" and instantly started my car. I found and bought a random one on Amazon (there are dozens -- https://www.amazon.com/s?k=car+jumpstart https://www.amazon.com/s?k=car+jumpstart). It's very small, can also be used to charge a cell phone, as a flashlight, etc., and really works. Every ICE should have one of these in the trunk.
    - pdkl95 7y ago
      Note that the battery in a "jump box" is probably capable of discharging a dangerous amounts of energy at very high current. BigClive measured[1] over >500A when he tried to discharge one of these batteries, which didn't actually work. The internal Li plates probably separated, breaking the circuit before fully discharging. After starting to disassemble the battery and realizing the that the plates had separated he attached a voltmeter and measured a full 3.6V across the supposedly-discharged, partially disassembled battery (squeezing the battery with his hands, "This still is fully charged, but it's just puffed up... that's a bit scary." Later, after the Li plates start changing color (!) - probably metallic Li starting to rapidly oxidize - they spontaneously ignited (pyrophoric). The benefits of having a spare "jump box" in the trunk are obvious, but it's important to remember that this means carrying a dangerous amount of energy in form that is a very serious fire risk if anything damaged the battery. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tGK1nqXr28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tGK1nqXr28