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Marriage is a wonderful institution and the children that come from it are the greatest gift you can be given. Our culture tells us the opposite. But our cult

Marriage is a wonderful institution and the children that come from it are the greatest gift you can be given. Our culture tells us the opposite. But our culture is insane and wants you to be an isolated, rootless, consumer wage slave.

paggle 7y ago
Seriously. I used to be on a high flying career path and was pretty happy about it. Then I had kids and realized I never knew what happiness was. I have about $2m and will be going to stay at home dad soon. Now everything at work seems like such utter bullshit. Who cares if this code compiles or not. We’re all just useless worms on a piece of dust. I’m going to spend my femtosecond with my kids.
- 033803throwaway 7y ago
  Amen. And congratulations. But you are not a useless worm and this is not a piece of dust.
- monkeynotes 7y ago
  Elephant in the room is the $2m in the bank. This alone affords you the perspective to value family life over all else. If you were struggling to make rent and feed your kids you might find that children are a burden and stress. I don't think this would necessarily make you love them any less, but some of my friends have warned me off of deciding to have children because of the financial strain that comes part-and-parcel for the average person with kids.
  - paggle 7y ago
    I recognize that my situation is not normal. But I see people around with me with much more who are still hunting for more.
    - dominotw 7y ago
      how did you calculate that $2m is enough?
tenebrisalietum 7y ago
> Marriage is a wonderful institution and the children that come from it are the greatest gift you can be given. This is true only if the finances are there to support it and both people really want it. In which case any "institution" can be considered wonderful and the fruit of it a "gift." Most people can't get out of the consumer wage slave trap, it's their only opportunity or the only one they know about or can use to try to be in a better economic situation. Children strain things and make things less happy between the mom and dad in a lot of marriages unless there's enough money.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  There are plenty of poor people in happy marriages (with children). Sometimes it's better to struggle together than alone.
- JakeTheAndroid 7y ago
  A close friend of mine had her mom and step dad married for easily 25 years and they both hated each other. He hated her kids (that lived with them) she hated his kids that were weed dealers (tbf so were her kids thats how I knew them lol). She gambled online all night or went to bingo, while he powered through a 30 pack on a Tuesday chillin on the couch. They had to stay together because they couldn't afford to live without the other. They were already in a small ass apartment, they didn't have assets to liquidate. They were slaves to each other because they needed the money. Unfortunately some of my close friends are stuck in a similar situation. Luckily they like each other more than the case above and have pretty much always struggled financially. But it's clear they need each others income to survive, and they just had a kid. Hoping they can maintain the love.
- thanatropism 7y ago
  Modulo taxes, how is a DINK couple worse off than two individuals each living in their own place? There's significant economies of scale.
dominotw 7y ago
> Marriage is a wonderful institution and the children that come from it are the greatest gift you can be given. Perhaps this is true for you personally. How do you know that this an "universal truth".
- monkeynotes 7y ago
  I translate 'marriage' to 'mature monogamous partnership' and I think scientific research shows that people who have a happy long-term partnership live longer than lonely single individuals. Perhaps especially true if children are part of that partnership. I don't think simply being married equates to happiness though. The institution is probably irrelevant when held up to the quality of the actual relationship.
  - agilebyte 7y ago
    Correct, it's having a partner that has an impact on our wellbeing. Also, last time I checked psychology textbooks having children had a neutral effect.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jlarocco 7y ago
> ... and the children that come from it are the greatest gift you can be given. LOL! You can keep 'em. I'm happy it works for you, but it's not for everybody.
francisofascii 7y ago
This message needs to be tempered a bit. Marriage can and often requires hard work, pain, struggle, and sacrifice. To say it is wonderful is wrong and will lead to disillusionment. Working through arguments, child issues, sex deprivation, affairs, moves, finances, etc. can be very rewarding and worth the struggle, but it is not wonderful all the time.
kiliantics 7y ago
There's no logical reason why we should necessarily uphold the institution of marriage and the nuclear family as the foundational structure of society. We could all enjoy fulfilling relationships with each other and with our community's children without marriage. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that we are failing many people in society by only legitimising those relationships that are based in marriage and legal parenthood/guardianship of children. Historically, most humans did not marry and were engaged in collective child-rearing, rather than foisting the responsibility on a single pair of parents that were either biologically or legally bound to a child. These practices only emerged with the agricultural revolution. I think it's easy to imagine that children would have a far more enriching experience of growing up if they were cared for by a larger group of people with a wider range of age, experience, skills, etc. Not to mention that it would help with the problems of children growing up in "broken" or single-parent households, where they may experience poor or insufficient care and attention due to economic hardship or parental absence.
thefz 7y ago
Thanks to higher education, a lot of people now have realized that their own life is worth living beyond the two catholic-born axioms of family and succession, and are looking to experience their whole existence just for themselves. There's no mega corporation or consumerism involved, just lucid realization of one's own aspirations and desires.
blaser-waffle 7y ago
>But our culture is insane and wants you to be an isolated, rootless, consumer wage slave See also: Jihad vs. McWorld by Barber, it is essentially a discussion of that phenomenon. Forcing everyone into a consumer role is liberating in some ways if you're someone who never had those rights (dalits in India, housewives in the West), but now you're just another wage slave competing against everyone else for their slice of the profits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad_vs._McWorld https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad_vs._McWorld

paggle 7y ago

Seriously. I used to be on a high flying career path and was pretty happy about it. Then I had kids and realized I never knew what happiness was. I have about $2m and will be going to stay at home dad soon. Now everything at work seems like such utter bullshit. Who cares if this code compiles or not. We’re all just useless worms on a piece of dust. I’m going to spend my femtosecond with my kids.

033803throwaway 7y ago
Amen. And congratulations. But you are not a useless worm and this is not a piece of dust.
monkeynotes 7y ago
Elephant in the room is the $2m in the bank. This alone affords you the perspective to value family life over all else. If you were struggling to make rent and feed your kids you might find that children are a burden and stress. I don't think this would necessarily make you love them any less, but some of my friends have warned me off of deciding to have children because of the financial strain that comes part-and-parcel for the average person with kids.
- paggle 7y ago
  I recognize that my situation is not normal. But I see people around with me with much more who are still hunting for more.
  - dominotw 7y ago
    how did you calculate that $2m is enough?

tenebrisalietum 7y ago

> Marriage is a wonderful institution and the children that come from it are the greatest gift you can be given. This is true only if the finances are there to support it and both people really want it. In which case any "institution" can be considered wonderful and the fruit of it a "gift." Most people can't get out of the consumer wage slave trap, it's their only opportunity or the only one they know about or can use to try to be in a better economic situation. Children strain things and make things less happy between the mom and dad in a lot of marriages unless there's enough money.

malvosenior 7y ago
There are plenty of poor people in happy marriages (with children). Sometimes it's better to struggle together than alone.
JakeTheAndroid 7y ago
A close friend of mine had her mom and step dad married for easily 25 years and they both hated each other. He hated her kids (that lived with them) she hated his kids that were weed dealers (tbf so were her kids thats how I knew them lol). She gambled online all night or went to bingo, while he powered through a 30 pack on a Tuesday chillin on the couch. They had to stay together because they couldn't afford to live without the other. They were already in a small ass apartment, they didn't have assets to liquidate. They were slaves to each other because they needed the money. Unfortunately some of my close friends are stuck in a similar situation. Luckily they like each other more than the case above and have pretty much always struggled financially. But it's clear they need each others income to survive, and they just had a kid. Hoping they can maintain the love.
thanatropism 7y ago
Modulo taxes, how is a DINK couple worse off than two individuals each living in their own place? There's significant economies of scale.

dominotw 7y ago

> Marriage is a wonderful institution and the children that come from it are the greatest gift you can be given. Perhaps this is true for you personally. How do you know that this an "universal truth".

monkeynotes 7y ago
I translate 'marriage' to 'mature monogamous partnership' and I think scientific research shows that people who have a happy long-term partnership live longer than lonely single individuals. Perhaps especially true if children are part of that partnership. I don't think simply being married equates to happiness though. The institution is probably irrelevant when held up to the quality of the actual relationship.
- agilebyte 7y ago
  Correct, it's having a partner that has an impact on our wellbeing. Also, last time I checked psychology textbooks having children had a neutral effect.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

jlarocco 7y ago

> ... and the children that come from it are the greatest gift you can be given. LOL! You can keep 'em. I'm happy it works for you, but it's not for everybody.

francisofascii 7y ago

This message needs to be tempered a bit. Marriage can and often requires hard work, pain, struggle, and sacrifice. To say it is wonderful is wrong and will lead to disillusionment. Working through arguments, child issues, sex deprivation, affairs, moves, finances, etc. can be very rewarding and worth the struggle, but it is not wonderful all the time.

kiliantics 7y ago

There's no logical reason why we should necessarily uphold the institution of marriage and the nuclear family as the foundational structure of society. We could all enjoy fulfilling relationships with each other and with our community's children without marriage. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that we are failing many people in society by only legitimising those relationships that are based in marriage and legal parenthood/guardianship of children. Historically, most humans did not marry and were engaged in collective child-rearing, rather than foisting the responsibility on a single pair of parents that were either biologically or legally bound to a child. These practices only emerged with the agricultural revolution. I think it's easy to imagine that children would have a far more enriching experience of growing up if they were cared for by a larger group of people with a wider range of age, experience, skills, etc. Not to mention that it would help with the problems of children growing up in "broken" or single-parent households, where they may experience poor or insufficient care and attention due to economic hardship or parental absence.

thefz 7y ago

Thanks to higher education, a lot of people now have realized that their own life is worth living beyond the two catholic-born axioms of family and succession, and are looking to experience their whole existence just for themselves. There's no mega corporation or consumerism involved, just lucid realization of one's own aspirations and desires.

blaser-waffle 7y ago

>But our culture is insane and wants you to be an isolated, rootless, consumer wage slave See also: Jihad vs. McWorld by Barber, it is essentially a discussion of that phenomenon. Forcing everyone into a consumer role is liberating in some ways if you're someone who never had those rights (dalits in India, housewives in the West), but now you're just another wage slave competing against everyone else for their slice of the profits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad_vs._McWorld https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad_vs._McWorld