5 ms·

More people wanted HRC, though. That's how elections work. It doesn't mean the loser is unpopular or broadly disliked. It means there's another candidate voters

by beat 7y ago

More people wanted HRC, though. That's how elections work. It doesn't mean the loser is unpopular or broadly disliked. It means there's another candidate voters like better (or dislike less).

StreamBright 7y ago
Nope, they did not. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/11/democrat-primary-elections-need-reform https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/11/democr... Even Warren agrees DNC was rigged against Sanders. https://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/04/politics/bernie-sanders-2016-election-donna-brazile/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/04/politics/bernie-sanders-2... https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/?destination=%2fposteverything%2fwp%2f2016%2f11%2f10%2fhillary-clinton-lost-bernie-sanders-could-have-won%2f%3f https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/?destination=%2f...
- beat 7y ago
  My eyes are rolling so hard right now. Primaries/caucuses are managed at the state level, and are not controlled directly or indirectly by the DNC. "Bias" means nothing without action, and the claims of "cheating" are completely unfounded (and insulting to the countless thousands of party volunteers who run caucuses and serve as election judges). Bernie lost by three million votes. Not because of cheating, but because more voters wanted HRC. Period. edit: Bernie has been languishing at 12-18% or so in the polls since the 2020 race really got rolling. That's Bernie's real base. Losing 2-1 to a colorless apparatchik like Biden does not suggest a revolutionary groundswell for Bernie. Rather, it suggests that the success he had in 2016 was due to other factors. I'd argue that more than half his votes weren't pro-Bernie, but rather anti-Hillary, a symbol of defiance and frustration against her near-coronation by the DNC, without giving actual rank and file voters a say (basically, by discouraging other A-list candidates from running against her).
  - StreamBright 7y ago
    >> Bernie lost by three million votes. Just like Obama lost by couple of hundred thousand votes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Democratic_Party_presiden... "What’s a political party for, anyway? It’s easy to bash the DNC’s joint fundraising agreement with Clinton, or the leaked emails showing that DNC staffers were supportive of Clinton and frustrated by Sanders. The DNC is meant to be a neutral presence in party primaries, and even minor deviations from that position are affronts. The harder question in the larger one: What role should party elites play in primaries? It wasn’t that long ago, after all, that they fully decided primaries, meeting in smoky back rooms during the political conventions to hash out the next nominee. Before 2016, the reigning political science theory of primaries was called “the party decides,” and it argued that political elites still largely decided party primaries, albeit through influencing voters rather than controlling convention delegates." https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/14/16640082/donna-brazile-warren-bernie-sanders-democratic-primary-rigged https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/14/16640082/... I think it is quite obvious that the DNC did everything in their power to get rid of Sanders and put HRC into position. The problem was that she was unelectable and many Bernie voters just decided that Trump will be a better president than HRC (and many unfortunate other things, like HRC's popularity went down after every public appearance, all the left leaning social media declared HRC president, etc.).
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >Primaries/caucuses are managed at the state level, and are not controlled directly or indirectly by the DNC. Why would that be?
    - beat 7y ago
      Laws. Traditions. Elections have always been managed on a state-by-state basis in the US, which is why my nice competent Minnesota that runs excellent elections is held hostage on a national level by borderline banana republics like Ohio and Florida, where ballot boxes out of the back of someone's car are considered normal.

by beat 7y ago

More people wanted HRC, though. That's how elections work. It doesn't mean the loser is unpopular or broadly disliked. It means there's another candidate voters like better (or dislike less).

StreamBright 7y ago

Nope, they did not. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/11/democrat-primary-elections-need-reform https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/11/democr... Even Warren agrees DNC was rigged against Sanders. https://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/04/politics/bernie-sanders-2016-election-donna-brazile/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/04/politics/bernie-sanders-2... https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/?destination=%2fposteverything%2fwp%2f2016%2f11%2f10%2fhillary-clinton-lost-bernie-sanders-could-have-won%2f%3f https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/?destination=%2f...

beat 7y ago
My eyes are rolling so hard right now. Primaries/caucuses are managed at the state level, and are not controlled directly or indirectly by the DNC. "Bias" means nothing without action, and the claims of "cheating" are completely unfounded (and insulting to the countless thousands of party volunteers who run caucuses and serve as election judges). Bernie lost by three million votes. Not because of cheating, but because more voters wanted HRC. Period. edit: Bernie has been languishing at 12-18% or so in the polls since the 2020 race really got rolling. That's Bernie's real base. Losing 2-1 to a colorless apparatchik like Biden does not suggest a revolutionary groundswell for Bernie. Rather, it suggests that the success he had in 2016 was due to other factors. I'd argue that more than half his votes weren't pro-Bernie, but rather anti-Hillary, a symbol of defiance and frustration against her near-coronation by the DNC, without giving actual rank and file voters a say (basically, by discouraging other A-list candidates from running against her).
- StreamBright 7y ago
  >> Bernie lost by three million votes. Just like Obama lost by couple of hundred thousand votes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Democratic_Party_presiden... "What’s a political party for, anyway? It’s easy to bash the DNC’s joint fundraising agreement with Clinton, or the leaked emails showing that DNC staffers were supportive of Clinton and frustrated by Sanders. The DNC is meant to be a neutral presence in party primaries, and even minor deviations from that position are affronts. The harder question in the larger one: What role should party elites play in primaries? It wasn’t that long ago, after all, that they fully decided primaries, meeting in smoky back rooms during the political conventions to hash out the next nominee. Before 2016, the reigning political science theory of primaries was called “the party decides,” and it argued that political elites still largely decided party primaries, albeit through influencing voters rather than controlling convention delegates." https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/14/16640082/donna-brazile-warren-bernie-sanders-democratic-primary-rigged https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/14/16640082/... I think it is quite obvious that the DNC did everything in their power to get rid of Sanders and put HRC into position. The problem was that she was unelectable and many Bernie voters just decided that Trump will be a better president than HRC (and many unfortunate other things, like HRC's popularity went down after every public appearance, all the left leaning social media declared HRC president, etc.).
- coldtea 7y ago
  >Primaries/caucuses are managed at the state level, and are not controlled directly or indirectly by the DNC. Why would that be?
  - beat 7y ago
    Laws. Traditions. Elections have always been managed on a state-by-state basis in the US, which is why my nice competent Minnesota that runs excellent elections is held hostage on a national level by borderline banana republics like Ohio and Florida, where ballot boxes out of the back of someone's car are considered normal.