6 ms·

Man that attitude of the grsecurity folks is bad. Oh look how great our process and fix is and how fast we are. And look how bad them kernel folks are. Yuk.

viraptor 7y ago
They are often in the "very correct, but unnecessarily mildly hostile" area. I wonder if they could gain way more public support just by having someone moderate their posts for PR.
ncmncm 7y ago
But they are correct. Correctness should forgive any amount of "tone", if indeed we care about correctness.
- unixhero 7y ago
  I have a guy at work who acts very stern and has strong opinions in discussions; Often he isn't right. Being stern and asshole-like doesn't make your right.
  - ncmncm 7y ago
    In this case the author is right, so your guy's faults do not figure. Stern, opinionated, and wrong are obviously worse than just wrong.
- mannykannot 7y ago
  It is no good being correct if you cannot communicate it, and the most effective communication drops the tone and sticks to the facts. Having said that, I do not think, in this case, there is significant tone/attitude. Naming names was not necessary, however.
- rndgermandude 7y ago
  No, it should not. I am no stranger to be borderline rude sometimes, also in part due to cultural differences and language barrier, so I am pretty forgiving when it comes to other people doing the same. But this... what they did is tooting their own horn, at the expense of others, and that annoys me. "look how great we are and how much the others suck".
  - pg_is_a_butt 7y ago
    oh, aren't you so smart and everyone else so uncontrollably rude. just monsters. not like you... you're way better. an ignorant hypocrite, perhaps, but not rude.
AdmiralAsshat 7y ago
That is kinda their business model though, isn't it? I mean, they're trying to sell you their added security patches, so it's in their interest to convince you that they alone know what they're doing and everyone else incompetent.
pferde 7y ago
Speaking as someone who at work (big corp) has to do semantic loop-de-loops and contortions to sugarcoat even the mildest criticism of sometimes utterly stupid ideas, just to avoid ruffling feathers and be politically correct, I find this refreshing. It seems to me that the kernel developers plain and simple fucked up, and grsecurity people are right to call them out on this. I don't find anything but objective summary of what happened in their post. No hostility at all. But that's just me.
vardump 7y ago
Thank you grsecurity for the patch. They provided a valuable fix. If they consider some chest bumping helps them to get more business to support their future freebie bug hunts, I'd call it fair. Also, I think bragging rights motivate a lot of white hats doing valuable work for free. Would we be better off without them? That said, I'm not saying being impolite is ok.
presidentscroob 7y ago
grsec has a history of not playing well with others, especially when they took away the source and went $$$ payware only. Took away public stable patches: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10128925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10128925 Took away public test patches: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14205145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14205145 When they sued a blogger for defamation: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/03/linux_kernel_grsecurity_sues_bruce_perens_for_defamation/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/03/linux_kernel_grsecu... Classic Coke Linus on grsec patches: https://www.spinics.net/lists/kernel/msg2540934.html https://www.spinics.net/lists/kernel/msg2540934.html Being a dick doesn't affect the quality and/or merits of code, it just makes some readers fall for their opinions more readily while turning off others.
deleted 7y ago
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viraptor 7y ago

They are often in the "very correct, but unnecessarily mildly hostile" area. I wonder if they could gain way more public support just by having someone moderate their posts for PR.

ncmncm 7y ago

But they are correct. Correctness should forgive any amount of "tone", if indeed we care about correctness.

unixhero 7y ago
I have a guy at work who acts very stern and has strong opinions in discussions; Often he isn't right. Being stern and asshole-like doesn't make your right.
- ncmncm 7y ago
  In this case the author is right, so your guy's faults do not figure. Stern, opinionated, and wrong are obviously worse than just wrong.
mannykannot 7y ago
It is no good being correct if you cannot communicate it, and the most effective communication drops the tone and sticks to the facts. Having said that, I do not think, in this case, there is significant tone/attitude. Naming names was not necessary, however.
rndgermandude 7y ago
No, it should not. I am no stranger to be borderline rude sometimes, also in part due to cultural differences and language barrier, so I am pretty forgiving when it comes to other people doing the same. But this... what they did is tooting their own horn, at the expense of others, and that annoys me. "look how great we are and how much the others suck".
- pg_is_a_butt 7y ago
  oh, aren't you so smart and everyone else so uncontrollably rude. just monsters. not like you... you're way better. an ignorant hypocrite, perhaps, but not rude.

AdmiralAsshat 7y ago

That is kinda their business model though, isn't it? I mean, they're trying to sell you their added security patches, so it's in their interest to convince you that they alone know what they're doing and everyone else incompetent.

pferde 7y ago

Speaking as someone who at work (big corp) has to do semantic loop-de-loops and contortions to sugarcoat even the mildest criticism of sometimes utterly stupid ideas, just to avoid ruffling feathers and be politically correct, I find this refreshing. It seems to me that the kernel developers plain and simple fucked up, and grsecurity people are right to call them out on this. I don't find anything but objective summary of what happened in their post. No hostility at all. But that's just me.

vardump 7y ago

Thank you grsecurity for the patch. They provided a valuable fix. If they consider some chest bumping helps them to get more business to support their future freebie bug hunts, I'd call it fair. Also, I think bragging rights motivate a lot of white hats doing valuable work for free. Would we be better off without them? That said, I'm not saying being impolite is ok.

presidentscroob 7y ago

grsec has a history of not playing well with others, especially when they took away the source and went $$$ payware only. Took away public stable patches: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10128925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10128925 Took away public test patches: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14205145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14205145 When they sued a blogger for defamation: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/03/linux_kernel_grsecurity_sues_bruce_perens_for_defamation/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/03/linux_kernel_grsecu... Classic Coke Linus on grsec patches: https://www.spinics.net/lists/kernel/msg2540934.html https://www.spinics.net/lists/kernel/msg2540934.html Being a dick doesn't affect the quality and/or merits of code, it just makes some readers fall for their opinions more readily while turning off others.

deleted 7y ago

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