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One of the responsibilities an employer has in the UK is to pay national insurance taxes, that are ostensibly believed to be how the NHS is funded (it's not), t

by NikkiA 7y ago

One of the responsibilities an employer has in the UK is to pay national insurance taxes, that are ostensibly believed to be how the NHS is funded (it's not), this is a responsibility that Uber/Lyft were shirking by their 'creative use of employment law' initially until they were forced to treat drivers as employees. So no, government issued healthcare is likely to make the issue even more starkly obviously wrong.

AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
So... Why not make contractors pay National Insurance?
- NikkiA 7y ago
  They do, like all employees, but the employer usually pays a contribution too, by insisting that workers are 'self-employed contractors' it reduces the money being paid to the NI fund. Contractor fees are somewhat assumed to include the rates necessary for a genuine contractor to pay the full NI amount, but Uber/Lyft relies on their 'contractors' not really being fully aware of that.
  - mattkrause 7y ago
    I’m not following.... In the US, employers pay part of some taxes, with the employees themselves responsible for the rest. Self-employed folks pick up both halves, so the government gets a similar amount of money either way. Does this not happen in the UK? Otherwise, it seems like it would be fairly easy to audit Uber (etc) “contractors” and to collect that money.
    - NikkiA 7y ago
      > Otherwise, it seems like it would be fairly easy to audit Uber (etc) “contractors” and to collect that money. Yes, this could, and should happen, most Uber drivers would not be correctly filing their taxes and NI contributions, almost all would likely end up with hefty fines or prison time. Most of those drivers are going to then be pissed at Uber for not making it clear to them that as contractors they are responsible for paying NI contributions and properly filing self-employed contractor status taxes. It wouldn't be pretty, but it'd be fun. But since Uber were simply forced to accept that their drivers are employees, and thus Uber is responsible for the 13% NI contributions, it won't happen to Uber at least.

by NikkiA 7y ago

AlexTWithBeard 7y ago

So... Why not make contractors pay National Insurance?

NikkiA 7y ago
They do, like all employees, but the employer usually pays a contribution too, by insisting that workers are 'self-employed contractors' it reduces the money being paid to the NI fund. Contractor fees are somewhat assumed to include the rates necessary for a genuine contractor to pay the full NI amount, but Uber/Lyft relies on their 'contractors' not really being fully aware of that.
- mattkrause 7y ago
  I’m not following.... In the US, employers pay part of some taxes, with the employees themselves responsible for the rest. Self-employed folks pick up both halves, so the government gets a similar amount of money either way. Does this not happen in the UK? Otherwise, it seems like it would be fairly easy to audit Uber (etc) “contractors” and to collect that money.
  - NikkiA 7y ago
    > Otherwise, it seems like it would be fairly easy to audit Uber (etc) “contractors” and to collect that money. Yes, this could, and should happen, most Uber drivers would not be correctly filing their taxes and NI contributions, almost all would likely end up with hefty fines or prison time. Most of those drivers are going to then be pissed at Uber for not making it clear to them that as contractors they are responsible for paying NI contributions and properly filing self-employed contractor status taxes. It wouldn't be pretty, but it'd be fun. But since Uber were simply forced to accept that their drivers are employees, and thus Uber is responsible for the 13% NI contributions, it won't happen to Uber at least.