4 ms·

> They vote every couple of years for candidates Aka the definition of democracy, yes. > that are also accepting millions in donations from wealthy donors. No

by darawk 7y ago

> They vote every couple of years for candidates Aka the definition of democracy, yes. > that are also accepting millions in donations from wealthy donors. No public airtime is provided so they only hear about candidates who can raise money. Candidates that the wealthy don't like raise money all the time, though. Most rich people didn't like Trump. They certainly don't like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. If your assertion is that money in politics systematically disenfranchises the poor, then you may want to re-examine the current democratic field. > They go to their workplace where the owners make all the decisions. Collectively most decisions in our economy are made by the capital owners or the political candidates who could raise the most funds from capital owners. Except that they choose to go to those workplaces. They may choose to do whatever they wish with their own time and labor.

TaylorAlexander 7y ago
> Except that they choose to go to those workplaces. They may choose to do whatever they wish with their own time and labor. I’m reminded of the factory workers in other countries whose indigenous land was stolen by the government so they could no longer farm. The one fertile farming land land was used to build factories. And the indigenes people, who no longer had any land to farm on, finally “chose” to work in the factory. I disagree with you strongly that voting every few years is the definition of democracy if you mean to say it is the entire definition of democracy. There’s been thousands of years of history and philosophy as it relates to democracy and voting every few years is far from the only idea people have had about it. In particular voting for representatives is participation in a representative democracy, which is one kind of democracy. There are others. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_assemblies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_assemblies
- darawk 7y ago
  > I’m reminded of the factory workers in other countries whose indigenous land was stolen by the government so they could no longer farm. The one fertile farming land land was used to build factories. And the indigenes people, who no longer had any land to farm on, finally “chose” to work in the factory. Sure, primitive accumulation is a real problem. But you can also follow that chain arbitrarily far back in history and it doesn't really get you anywhere. If you want to go live off the land, that's certainly fine with me, i'm just saying: don't expect to receive the fruits of modern civilization if you aren't participating in it. > I disagree with you strongly that voting every few years is the definition of democracy if you mean to say it is the entire definition of democracy. There’s been thousands of years of history and philosophy as it relates to democracy and voting every few years is far from the only idea people have had about it. In particular voting for representatives is participation in a representative democracy, which is one kind of democracy. There are others. Of course, there are many reasonable reifications of the 'democracy' abstraction. However, voting for representatives every few years is very reasonable one, and the idea that it is "not democracy" is simply wrong.

by darawk 7y ago

TaylorAlexander 7y ago

> Except that they choose to go to those workplaces. They may choose to do whatever they wish with their own time and labor. I’m reminded of the factory workers in other countries whose indigenous land was stolen by the government so they could no longer farm. The one fertile farming land land was used to build factories. And the indigenes people, who no longer had any land to farm on, finally “chose” to work in the factory. I disagree with you strongly that voting every few years is the definition of democracy if you mean to say it is the entire definition of democracy. There’s been thousands of years of history and philosophy as it relates to democracy and voting every few years is far from the only idea people have had about it. In particular voting for representatives is participation in a representative democracy, which is one kind of democracy. There are others. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_assemblies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_assemblies

darawk 7y ago
> I’m reminded of the factory workers in other countries whose indigenous land was stolen by the government so they could no longer farm. The one fertile farming land land was used to build factories. And the indigenes people, who no longer had any land to farm on, finally “chose” to work in the factory. Sure, primitive accumulation is a real problem. But you can also follow that chain arbitrarily far back in history and it doesn't really get you anywhere. If you want to go live off the land, that's certainly fine with me, i'm just saying: don't expect to receive the fruits of modern civilization if you aren't participating in it. > I disagree with you strongly that voting every few years is the definition of democracy if you mean to say it is the entire definition of democracy. There’s been thousands of years of history and philosophy as it relates to democracy and voting every few years is far from the only idea people have had about it. In particular voting for representatives is participation in a representative democracy, which is one kind of democracy. There are others. Of course, there are many reasonable reifications of the 'democracy' abstraction. However, voting for representatives every few years is very reasonable one, and the idea that it is "not democracy" is simply wrong.