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How could ads benefit users? Obviously, if the revenue that content creators receive from ads came directly from the consumers, the middle (ad) man would be cut

How could ads benefit users? Obviously, if the revenue that content creators receive from ads came directly from the consumers, the middle (ad) man would be cut out and all others would benefit.

buboard 7y ago
The same way that reading HN can benefit users. A lot of the posted blog articles are covert advertising anyway. Ads do not benefit the user directly, they benefit the business, which expands and improves its products, which itself benefits the user. Advertising is indispensable for business growth, and are never going to go away, they 'll just change format
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  > A lot of the posted blog articles are covert advertising anyway. And a lot of them aren't, and a big reason why people read HN or /r/$someNiche instead of an industry news site is because community link aggregators do a good job at weeding out the advertising. > Ads do not benefit the user directly, they benefit the business, which expands and improves its products, which itself benefits the user. I'd be careful, because this line of argument can justify anything a business does to make more money, because "they'll expand and improve its products". In reality, the "improvement" of a product is measured by its profitability, so if you let a business play unfairly and abusively, they'll only do more of that.
IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago
The media is financed by ads to the tune of around 50%. That business is sort of necessary for democracy, as decision-making requires information to close the feedback loop. Therefore, I wouldn't quite so readily cheer the downfall of the industry with nothing more than the typical "be better and you'll find more paying customers" advice.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  > The media is financed by ads to the tune of around 50%. That's because it's the easiest and most profitable business model available. Kill it off, and media will shift to a different model. Advertising isn't necessary for media to exist, and it's not like people want media to exist because of ads. > That business is sort of necessary for democracy, as decision-making requires information to close the feedback loop. Sort of, kind of. Some news reporting is the part that's necessary for democracy. Not the entirety of what news sites serve today, and definitely not the larger media industry. News reporting is already pretty much as low as it can get, thanks to advertising-based business model. Facts and reasoned opinions matter little; fake news and outrage-inducing reporting generates more page views, leading to more ad impressions, and thus more money for the news organization.
  - mamon 7y ago
    >> Kill it off, and media will shift to a different model The alternative model is to make users pay. Imagine all news sites hiding behind paywalls. Advertising is not only easiest and more profitable, it is also most convenient for the end users.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      > Imagine all news sites hiding behind paywalls. I imagine this and I think we'd end up with a much saner world, but that's a separate topic. One twist to that business model I can imagine that - I feel - would allow private news sites to exist while not burdening people and making the state actually pay for its democracy protection service is: allow everyone to deduct money they spend on news subscriptions from their taxes. This way, the free market for independent news services still works, but now the state is funding it - as it should, since timely news is a public good. > it is also most convenient for the end users That's because true costs are distributed and hidden; that doesn't mean they aren't there.
    - adangert 7y ago
      Another alternative is patreon. Remove all ads on your site other than ones to your crowdfunding page. Users are happy, the site makes money in proportion to it's quality.
- maigret 7y ago
  There used to be a time where ads weren’t synonym with endless privacy breaches though. Lots of content nowadays is niche, and as such can get well working advertising without much tracking.

How could ads benefit users? Obviously, if the revenue that content creators receive from ads came directly from the consumers, the middle (ad) man would be cut out and all others would benefit.

buboard 7y ago

The same way that reading HN can benefit users. A lot of the posted blog articles are covert advertising anyway. Ads do not benefit the user directly, they benefit the business, which expands and improves its products, which itself benefits the user. Advertising is indispensable for business growth, and are never going to go away, they 'll just change format

TeMPOraL 7y ago
> A lot of the posted blog articles are covert advertising anyway. And a lot of them aren't, and a big reason why people read HN or /r/$someNiche instead of an industry news site is because community link aggregators do a good job at weeding out the advertising. > Ads do not benefit the user directly, they benefit the business, which expands and improves its products, which itself benefits the user. I'd be careful, because this line of argument can justify anything a business does to make more money, because "they'll expand and improve its products". In reality, the "improvement" of a product is measured by its profitability, so if you let a business play unfairly and abusively, they'll only do more of that.

IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago

The media is financed by ads to the tune of around 50%. That business is sort of necessary for democracy, as decision-making requires information to close the feedback loop. Therefore, I wouldn't quite so readily cheer the downfall of the industry with nothing more than the typical "be better and you'll find more paying customers" advice.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
> The media is financed by ads to the tune of around 50%. That's because it's the easiest and most profitable business model available. Kill it off, and media will shift to a different model. Advertising isn't necessary for media to exist, and it's not like people want media to exist because of ads. > That business is sort of necessary for democracy, as decision-making requires information to close the feedback loop. Sort of, kind of. Some news reporting is the part that's necessary for democracy. Not the entirety of what news sites serve today, and definitely not the larger media industry. News reporting is already pretty much as low as it can get, thanks to advertising-based business model. Facts and reasoned opinions matter little; fake news and outrage-inducing reporting generates more page views, leading to more ad impressions, and thus more money for the news organization.
- mamon 7y ago
  >> Kill it off, and media will shift to a different model The alternative model is to make users pay. Imagine all news sites hiding behind paywalls. Advertising is not only easiest and more profitable, it is also most convenient for the end users.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    > Imagine all news sites hiding behind paywalls. I imagine this and I think we'd end up with a much saner world, but that's a separate topic. One twist to that business model I can imagine that - I feel - would allow private news sites to exist while not burdening people and making the state actually pay for its democracy protection service is: allow everyone to deduct money they spend on news subscriptions from their taxes. This way, the free market for independent news services still works, but now the state is funding it - as it should, since timely news is a public good. > it is also most convenient for the end users That's because true costs are distributed and hidden; that doesn't mean they aren't there.
  - adangert 7y ago
    Another alternative is patreon. Remove all ads on your site other than ones to your crowdfunding page. Users are happy, the site makes money in proportion to it's quality.
maigret 7y ago
There used to be a time where ads weren’t synonym with endless privacy breaches though. Lots of content nowadays is niche, and as such can get well working advertising without much tracking.