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I believe that was the promise of communism - which failed due to most people's inherent desire to be better than others or to excel. Also, people realized tha

I believe that was the promise of communism - which failed due to most people's inherent desire to be better than others or to excel. Also, people realized that they could/should do the absolute minimum, as there was no benefit for working harder. They did end up adding incentives (in the USSR) which started looking more and more like capitalism.

jshen 16y ago
I'm so glad linus did the minimum when working on Linux, you know, since he wasn't getting paid and there was no perceivable financial gain in it. This meme that money is the only significant benefit from ones efforts should be plainly false. Why smart people believe it is beyond me.
- ericd 16y ago
  Linus really can't be used as an example of what normal behavior would be. Noone's saying it's the only significant benefit, but for a lot of people, it is the overwhelming majority of the benefit of what they do. Programmers live in a privileged bubble compared to most.
  - jbooth 16y ago
    Of course, when we're talking about the top of the income scale, we're very specifically talking about the group of people who live in that privileged bubble.
  - jshen 16y ago
    I disagree. most people I know have some passion that they do for the love of it. Whether it's playing guitar, doing wood work, cooking, etc. Many of us here happen to have a passion for programming. But in all cases, money is not the motivator. If money were such a strong motivator video games would be a lot less popular.
    - ericd 16y ago
      Weren't we talking about livelihoods? Of course people have hobbies... For a very large percentage of people, their livelihood and their passion are not the same thing, and it's mistaken to use programmers like Linus as representative of most people or what would happen in something like Communism.
- tjansen 16y ago
  Linux is not a good example, because many (most?) good programmers love their work and would do it without payment. But this is not the case for many (most?) other workers - they would rather do something else and only work because they have to, or because their job pays better than other alternatives.
  - jshen 16y ago
    I think you're missing the point. That's only because other people aren't usually paid to do what they enjoy. However, most of them will have a passion like cooking, wood working, gardening, competitive video games, basketball, etc. If money were such a strong motivator things like video games would be a lot less popular. Pickup basketball would be a lot less popular.
- MrDunham 16y ago
  There's a fantastic video on What Motivates Us. Link is [video] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc . One of the things they showed an inverse correlation on amount someone gets paid and what they produce when it's anything above menial labor. Highly worth a watch.
loewenskind 16y ago
Ugh. The reasons Russia's communism failed is an incredibly complicated and still debated subject. Throwing it all to "people's inherent desire to be better than others or to excel" is completely wrong.
- Andrew_Quentin 16y ago
  Is it? Isnt that what we are told? Why did it collapse then?
  - loewenskind 16y ago
    Lots of reasons. You could watch the movie "Reds" with Warren Beatty. It's just a movie, but it should be a good jumping off place to see what parts to investigate. For example, I'm sure sanctions from the rest of the world [1] from the beginning didn't do them any favors. Having a wolf in with the hens (named Stalin) was also unfortunate. [1] All terrified that revolution would kick off in their countries. Justified fear as well, it did just that in Spain.

jshen 16y ago

I'm so glad linus did the minimum when working on Linux, you know, since he wasn't getting paid and there was no perceivable financial gain in it. This meme that money is the only significant benefit from ones efforts should be plainly false. Why smart people believe it is beyond me.

ericd 16y ago
Linus really can't be used as an example of what normal behavior would be. Noone's saying it's the only significant benefit, but for a lot of people, it is the overwhelming majority of the benefit of what they do. Programmers live in a privileged bubble compared to most.
- jbooth 16y ago
  Of course, when we're talking about the top of the income scale, we're very specifically talking about the group of people who live in that privileged bubble.
- jshen 16y ago
  I disagree. most people I know have some passion that they do for the love of it. Whether it's playing guitar, doing wood work, cooking, etc. Many of us here happen to have a passion for programming. But in all cases, money is not the motivator. If money were such a strong motivator video games would be a lot less popular.
  - ericd 16y ago
    Weren't we talking about livelihoods? Of course people have hobbies... For a very large percentage of people, their livelihood and their passion are not the same thing, and it's mistaken to use programmers like Linus as representative of most people or what would happen in something like Communism.
tjansen 16y ago
Linux is not a good example, because many (most?) good programmers love their work and would do it without payment. But this is not the case for many (most?) other workers - they would rather do something else and only work because they have to, or because their job pays better than other alternatives.
- jshen 16y ago
  I think you're missing the point. That's only because other people aren't usually paid to do what they enjoy. However, most of them will have a passion like cooking, wood working, gardening, competitive video games, basketball, etc. If money were such a strong motivator things like video games would be a lot less popular. Pickup basketball would be a lot less popular.
MrDunham 16y ago
There's a fantastic video on What Motivates Us. Link is [video] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc . One of the things they showed an inverse correlation on amount someone gets paid and what they produce when it's anything above menial labor. Highly worth a watch.

loewenskind 16y ago

Ugh. The reasons Russia's communism failed is an incredibly complicated and still debated subject. Throwing it all to "people's inherent desire to be better than others or to excel" is completely wrong.

Andrew_Quentin 16y ago
Is it? Isnt that what we are told? Why did it collapse then?
- loewenskind 16y ago
  Lots of reasons. You could watch the movie "Reds" with Warren Beatty. It's just a movie, but it should be a good jumping off place to see what parts to investigate. For example, I'm sure sanctions from the rest of the world [1] from the beginning didn't do them any favors. Having a wolf in with the hens (named Stalin) was also unfortunate. [1] All terrified that revolution would kick off in their countries. Justified fear as well, it did just that in Spain.