8 ms·

Real-Time maps warn Hong Kong protesters of water cannons and riot police

186 points by hardmaru 7y ago

est 7y ago
Is this what future war looks like?
- Chakazul 7y ago
  That's information warfare
  - hndamien 7y ago
    Bitcoin is what information warfare looks like.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
jszymborski 7y ago
> In crowded situations where internet access may be near-nonexistent, Orca encourages protesters on the edge of a crowd—where data coverage is better—to download the map, then AirDrop it into the crowd so it can make its way deep into the middle. “We call it rippling out, or rather rippling in,” he said. This is by far the most interesting part for me. My fear is always what happens when authorities "turn off the hose", but mesh networks like this are inspiring.
- Aperocky 7y ago
  It's also heavily reliant on everyone owning an iPhone while turning on public sharing
- malandrew 7y ago
  Once this technique is known, I would imagine that authorities can exploit this by uploading bogus maps or many many bogus maps so you don't know which is the legitimate map and couldn't find it quickly enough even if you did.
  - jszymborski 7y ago
    that's no more true with the web than it is with mesh systems. The HK protesters are using a source of authority for this. This can be extended in a mesh system with a web of trust, not that that's w/o it's issues.
stunt 7y ago
HK protest is probably the most high-tech protest ever. I suspect many governments are studying it now to learn from it.
- Accujack 7y ago
  And people who may need to protest in the future, and rightfully so.
  - TomMckenny 7y ago
    I hope Taiwan is watching closely, for that and several other reasons.
    - AWildC182 7y ago
      Taiwan is actually independent though. If Taiwan ever needed to "protest" China it would likely be after a large portion of their population was killed after somehow starting and losing a massive pseudo-proxy-war between China and the US.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Anothernhym 7y ago
After Cheney's scaling event, I mean Bush's invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, San Francisco protested hard. A lot of their techniques were innovative and new, and the organization was stunning. Occupy was even better tactically and strategically. None of them compared to the freedom fighters in Hong Kong. They do the things that Americans are too cowardly to imagine, like shutting down airports and transit. Have you seen the way they extinguish tear gas canisters with traffic cones? With some guns, some tanks, some international support, and the right leader, Hong Kong could win their independence from the monsters who run China.
- roenxi 7y ago
  > None of them compared to the freedom fighters in Hong Kong. The Hong Kongese aren't protesting for freedom; so they probably aren't freedom fighters. If the Chinese had a legal tradition as sophisticated as what Hong Kong has acquired from the Western powers, there wouldn't be much to complain about. Of the now-famous '5 demands', at least 4 and arguably 5 center around a deep suspicion of mainland influence over the justice system. As far as the reporting goes the spark for the protests was the idea that the Hong Kong judiciary would become more intertwined with the Chinese legal system, and that upset people. If the Chinese had a legal system that was regarded as 'pretty good' or 'world class' it isn't obvious why anyone in HK would care. They don't seem to have a problem with being Chinese. It isn't even obvious that they are protesting against the CCP. > With some guns, some tanks, some international support, and the right leader, Hong Kong could win their independence from the monsters who run China. I wouldn't try it in their shoes. They are physically a very small city compared to China and it wouldn't be very good for them in the long term.
- King-Aaron 7y ago
  > With some guns, some tanks, some international support, and the right leader, Hong Kong could win their independence from the monsters who run China. You're suggesting engaging in a proxy war with China?
  - behringer 7y ago
    never get involved in a land war in Asia
mamon 7y ago
...and with Machine Learning scraping and analysing social media posts, police knows the location of the protest ahead of time.
- guywhocodes 7y ago
  It's HKPD though. They are like 200 years away from that kind of capacity.
- thinkingemote 7y ago
  Police will know this regardless of technology. The object is not for protestors to avoid the police, it's for the protestors to know where they are. It's making information less asymmetric.

186 points by hardmaru 7y ago

est 7y ago

Is this what future war looks like?

Chakazul 7y ago
That's information warfare
- hndamien 7y ago
  Bitcoin is what information warfare looks like.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

jszymborski 7y ago

> In crowded situations where internet access may be near-nonexistent, Orca encourages protesters on the edge of a crowd—where data coverage is better—to download the map, then AirDrop it into the crowd so it can make its way deep into the middle. “We call it rippling out, or rather rippling in,” he said. This is by far the most interesting part for me. My fear is always what happens when authorities "turn off the hose", but mesh networks like this are inspiring.

Aperocky 7y ago
It's also heavily reliant on everyone owning an iPhone while turning on public sharing
malandrew 7y ago
Once this technique is known, I would imagine that authorities can exploit this by uploading bogus maps or many many bogus maps so you don't know which is the legitimate map and couldn't find it quickly enough even if you did.
- jszymborski 7y ago
  that's no more true with the web than it is with mesh systems. The HK protesters are using a source of authority for this. This can be extended in a mesh system with a web of trust, not that that's w/o it's issues.

stunt 7y ago

HK protest is probably the most high-tech protest ever. I suspect many governments are studying it now to learn from it.

Accujack 7y ago
And people who may need to protest in the future, and rightfully so.
- TomMckenny 7y ago
  I hope Taiwan is watching closely, for that and several other reasons.
  - AWildC182 7y ago
    Taiwan is actually independent though. If Taiwan ever needed to "protest" China it would likely be after a large portion of their population was killed after somehow starting and losing a massive pseudo-proxy-war between China and the US.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Anothernhym 7y ago

After Cheney's scaling event, I mean Bush's invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, San Francisco protested hard. A lot of their techniques were innovative and new, and the organization was stunning. Occupy was even better tactically and strategically. None of them compared to the freedom fighters in Hong Kong. They do the things that Americans are too cowardly to imagine, like shutting down airports and transit. Have you seen the way they extinguish tear gas canisters with traffic cones? With some guns, some tanks, some international support, and the right leader, Hong Kong could win their independence from the monsters who run China.

roenxi 7y ago
> None of them compared to the freedom fighters in Hong Kong. The Hong Kongese aren't protesting for freedom; so they probably aren't freedom fighters. If the Chinese had a legal tradition as sophisticated as what Hong Kong has acquired from the Western powers, there wouldn't be much to complain about. Of the now-famous '5 demands', at least 4 and arguably 5 center around a deep suspicion of mainland influence over the justice system. As far as the reporting goes the spark for the protests was the idea that the Hong Kong judiciary would become more intertwined with the Chinese legal system, and that upset people. If the Chinese had a legal system that was regarded as 'pretty good' or 'world class' it isn't obvious why anyone in HK would care. They don't seem to have a problem with being Chinese. It isn't even obvious that they are protesting against the CCP. > With some guns, some tanks, some international support, and the right leader, Hong Kong could win their independence from the monsters who run China. I wouldn't try it in their shoes. They are physically a very small city compared to China and it wouldn't be very good for them in the long term.
King-Aaron 7y ago
> With some guns, some tanks, some international support, and the right leader, Hong Kong could win their independence from the monsters who run China. You're suggesting engaging in a proxy war with China?
- behringer 7y ago
  never get involved in a land war in Asia

mamon 7y ago

...and with Machine Learning scraping and analysing social media posts, police knows the location of the protest ahead of time.

guywhocodes 7y ago
It's HKPD though. They are like 200 years away from that kind of capacity.
thinkingemote 7y ago
Police will know this regardless of technology. The object is not for protestors to avoid the police, it's for the protestors to know where they are. It's making information less asymmetric.