7 ms·

Neutralizing Tear Gas

111 points by SCAQTony 7y ago

markdown 7y ago
Well that was a frustratingly useless article. They brought in an expert to answer the question and he didn't answer the question. I still don't know what was in the thermos or what to use to extinguish a tear gas canister. This would have been more useful and interesting if PopMech had just bought a few canisters, tested the various theorie, and reported the results.
- goda90 7y ago
  The article quotes the person from the video who said it was mud.
  - paleotrope 7y ago
    Plus, a tear gas canister is just something that is burning slowly, so if you immerse it in something you can extinguish it.
    - abakker 7y ago
      I didn't know that. I always assumed they were just compressed gas with a pinhole poked in them or something.
      - paleotrope 7y ago
        Naw, it's just smoke from a different source then you'd expect. It's clear if you've been in boot camp. They light up the tabs that produce the gas. Also, gas grenades can get pretty hot, that's why you shouldn't pick them up without gloves.
    - SCAQTony 7y ago
      Fire needs a flammable source, heat, and oxygen. I suspect the enclosed cannister space hampered the O2 and the mud hampered the combustible material. Mud does seem plausible.
      - sleepydog 7y ago
        The article says the tear gas cannister uses potassium chlorate (KCIO2) as its oxygen source, rather than atmospheric oxygen, so I'm not sure how effective smothering it would be. The thermos probably is just to protect the protestor's hands. Based on the other method
    - throwaway1997 7y ago
      It's pretty easy to put them out. Here is an alternative method that was used before the thermos method was discovered: https://twitter.com/alexhofford/status/1155514310308896768 https://twitter.com/alexhofford/status/1155514310308896768 Just behind the frontline is a taskforce who runs around putting out all teargas.
  - markdown 7y ago
    And the PopMech expert called him a liar.
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  As for CS gas, it attacks and inflames exposed mucous membranes. The best homemade solution for protecting lungs is a wet but separated barrier, like being wrapped in wet towels. Oiled rags work decently too and do not need to be moistened repeatedly. If inhaled, apply amyl acetate inhalant stick to help with breathing. You will need tight glasses to protect eyes, eg. swimming goggles. Temporarily you can cover them with said wet barrier but that loses you vision and is mostly useful for passing area of gas. Immersing or tightly covering the source will prevent it from spreading the gas. Careful, it's hot, do not use anything flammable. Of course a real gas mask with filters or P95 (or better) respirator plus goggles is better for protecting lungs. (N level respirators for dust won't work.) Source: was in civil defense.
- idlewords 7y ago
  Water. You extinguish it with water. Pour water on it, drop it in a bucket, etc.
goda90 7y ago
I can't help but think that there could be an unfortunate inverse to JFK's "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." in this. Tyrants finding their nonlethal weapons not working might more quickly turn to using guns.
- throwaway1997 7y ago
  The failure of teargas to disperse crowds is cited as one of the reasons for quickly bringing the water cannons into service, despite concerns related to using them in the very densely populated streets of HK.
  - rolph 7y ago
    thank whatever or whoever that no one has yet thought of using water cannons with pellets in the water.
    - cf498 7y ago
      You dont really need pellets. The pressure of a water canon is high enough to break rips and pop eyes. You dont achieve anything more by adding pellets. They do however mix in the different variants of pepper spray into the water. Some countries use regular pellet guns, for example India in Kashmir with the expected result of a lot of lost eyes.
- newguy1234 7y ago
  If they turn to lethal weapons then political support for them would probably break down very quickly, especially from foreign powers.
  - mistermann 7y ago
    As long as commerce keeps flowing, I think China has high enough self esteem that they'll do just fine losing some popularity, and I can't see Western corporations putting any money where their mouths are. Actually, no corporations have really commented on the matter as far as I know, so they're not even being hypocritical. There is so much money on the line, it would have to get incredibly bloody before anyone would do anything, so I think China has lots of leeway, and I've seen nothing to indicate they're not incredibly sharp.
HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
This is one of those things that might just be good to know for whatever reason in the future. Thanks for the post.
- cf498 7y ago
  As no one else mentioned it, depending on which country you are in, you should never try to pick up a tear gas canister shot/thrown at you as you might confuse it with a flash bang in the heat of the moment. There is a long list of people in France who tried to throw back flash bang grenades and lost a hand as a result.
  - snag 7y ago
    Tear gas grenades used in France are GLI-F4's ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLI-F4_grenade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLI-F4_grenade) and not flash bangs. It actually contains more TNT than CS gas to get a blast effect (similar to flash bangs)
    - cf498 7y ago
      Had to read up a bit, but either way i seem to have mixed something up. I did not know the French tear gas grenades also had TNT in them. But I read about such flashbang/teargas mixups before their introduction in 2011. The non french sources are a bit muddy, but Vital Michalon seems to have died at Superphénix due to a sock grenade damaging his lungs? But nevertheless it seems i mixed up France with Switzerland here. Though I cant find the original source I had in mind, Guy Smallman had his leg severely injured in Geneva during the 2003 G8 summit by a shock grenade. https://web.archive.org/web/20130507090403/http://www.nujadm.org.uk/2009/photographer-guy-smallman-wins-geneva-case/ https://web.archive.org/web/20130507090403/http://www.nujadm... Thanks for the heads up!
Synaesthesia 7y ago
The inventor of tear gas never meant for it to be used against civilians protesting.
- hutzlibu 7y ago
  And since chemical weapons are banned for military, I rrad the morbid explanation for research in the area is "no worries, it will not be used in combat, just for crowd control".
idlewords 7y ago
The Hong Kong police raise a banner warning of "tear smoke" when they're about to fire, and this is a much less confusing name for the stuff than tear gas. A cartridge of something hot and smoking skitters at your feet. You can throw it back, or douse it with water, or immerse it in water, but you'll burn your hand if you don't have gloves on. The smoke is a powerful irritant that feels like someone blew pepper into your eyes and nose. If the residue gets on your skin and clothes, you can tear gas yourself later by accident. Goggles and a particulate filter mask protect against it. That's really all you need to know about tear gas.
- kweks 7y ago
  I have experienced several riots (Hong Kong 2019, Hong Kong 2013, Istanbul 2013, Paris 2019..) where gas was deployed. Your comments are pithy and correct. What is interesting is observing theearning curve of the protest participants, who rapidly learn and adapt, but always seem initially underprepared.
  - WildGreenLeave 7y ago
    You sparked my interest here :-) Why have you experienced so many different riots? Are you a reporter, a protestor or something else?
    - kweks 7y ago
      Right place at the wrong time, mainly. The Istanbul protests were the exception, as I knew several people and wanted to see the situation personally. What is true is that Life Goes On. Even in Istanbul or Paris with the huge protests, if you're not in that specific part of town at that specific moment, you wouldn't even know it was happening. Hotels in HK are wildly cheap at the moment.. it's the time to visit a tourist free city and witness (for better or for worse) history in motion
      - idlewords 7y ago
        I agree that it's an excellent time to visit Hong Kong if you do not mind the risk of travel disruption (airport delays or trouble getting around on public transit). This is not a violent society even now, and travelers are not at risk in my opinion.
nodesocket 7y ago
When I was down in Santiago Chile, I actually got tear tear gassed as it was deployed in huge amounts to break up protests. The police down in Chile don't mess around, at first signs of a protest they bring out the armored vehicles and just start firing away. It was brutal but also exciting besides the burning, coughing, and watered eyes for nearly an hour.
- pedalpete 7y ago
  I was going to comment the same thing. I used to live across from the park in Providencia. Even on New Years, just to clear the streets, police tear-gassed the streets in Valpo.
d03-dsd 7y ago
This is what disguised propaganda looks like, obviously the post is not about "How tear gas works"
dfgbnjhjjj 7y ago
Arschloch
jonplackett 7y ago
> Potassium nitrate particularly helps charcoal burn faster, according to Wired. Is it just me, or is it weird for Wired Magazine to the the source of knowledge for chemistry?
- Shivetya 7y ago
  Odder for me were the informative articles on SyFy's site Bad Astronomy section. I will take good and interesting information wherever I can get it. Isn't that what makes the internet great? That we have so many sources that we are bound to come across something we had little to no knowledge of and then have the ability to cross check it?
JulianMorrison 7y ago
A lacrosse stick is perfect for scooping and chucking this stuff back. A tennis racket would work too. And the HK protesters have successfully used traffic cones as a way to contain and extinguish it.
- whenchamenia 7y ago
  Anything possibly weapon-like is often discuraged at protests. Most want to be non-violent, even if there is resistance. A boot or a heavy gloved hand is fine.
RickJWagner 7y ago
I experienced tear gas first hand, as part of US Air Force training. It's terrible. Your eyes water, fluids pour out of your nose and down your throat, you choke. Truly an effective invention.
PavlikPaja 7y ago
Fun fact: The Geneva convention forbids the use of tear gas at war.
- vaylian 7y ago
  I was wondering about exactly that when I read the article. The description of how it works is really gruesome. Many policemen themselves have probably no clue how it works.
- xkcd-sucks 7y ago
  Torture is considered worse than killing... but weapons made for inflicting pain are totally okay (domestically)
roflchoppa2 7y ago
Need to get this information to the people of Kashmir.

111 points by SCAQTony 7y ago

Well that was a frustratingly useless article. They brought in an expert to answer the question and he didn't answer the question. I still don't know what was in the thermos or what to use to extinguish a tear gas canister. This would have been more useful and interesting if PopMech had just bought a few canisters, tested the various theorie, and reported the results.

goda90 7y ago
The article quotes the person from the video who said it was mud.
- paleotrope 7y ago
  Plus, a tear gas canister is just something that is burning slowly, so if you immerse it in something you can extinguish it.
  - abakker 7y ago
    I didn't know that. I always assumed they were just compressed gas with a pinhole poked in them or something.
    - paleotrope 7y ago
      Naw, it's just smoke from a different source then you'd expect. It's clear if you've been in boot camp. They light up the tabs that produce the gas. Also, gas grenades can get pretty hot, that's why you shouldn't pick them up without gloves.
  - SCAQTony 7y ago
    Fire needs a flammable source, heat, and oxygen. I suspect the enclosed cannister space hampered the O2 and the mud hampered the combustible material. Mud does seem plausible.
    - sleepydog 7y ago
      The article says the tear gas cannister uses potassium chlorate (KCIO2) as its oxygen source, rather than atmospheric oxygen, so I'm not sure how effective smothering it would be. The thermos probably is just to protect the protestor's hands. Based on the other method
  - throwaway1997 7y ago
    It's pretty easy to put them out. Here is an alternative method that was used before the thermos method was discovered: https://twitter.com/alexhofford/status/1155514310308896768 https://twitter.com/alexhofford/status/1155514310308896768 Just behind the frontline is a taskforce who runs around putting out all teargas.
- markdown 7y ago
  And the PopMech expert called him a liar.
AstralStorm 7y ago
As for CS gas, it attacks and inflames exposed mucous membranes. The best homemade solution for protecting lungs is a wet but separated barrier, like being wrapped in wet towels. Oiled rags work decently too and do not need to be moistened repeatedly. If inhaled, apply amyl acetate inhalant stick to help with breathing. You will need tight glasses to protect eyes, eg. swimming goggles. Temporarily you can cover them with said wet barrier but that loses you vision and is mostly useful for passing area of gas. Immersing or tightly covering the source will prevent it from spreading the gas. Careful, it's hot, do not use anything flammable. Of course a real gas mask with filters or P95 (or better) respirator plus goggles is better for protecting lungs. (N level respirators for dust won't work.) Source: was in civil defense.
idlewords 7y ago
Water. You extinguish it with water. Pour water on it, drop it in a bucket, etc.

goda90 7y ago

I can't help but think that there could be an unfortunate inverse to JFK's "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." in this. Tyrants finding their nonlethal weapons not working might more quickly turn to using guns.

throwaway1997 7y ago
The failure of teargas to disperse crowds is cited as one of the reasons for quickly bringing the water cannons into service, despite concerns related to using them in the very densely populated streets of HK.
- rolph 7y ago
  thank whatever or whoever that no one has yet thought of using water cannons with pellets in the water.
  - cf498 7y ago
    You dont really need pellets. The pressure of a water canon is high enough to break rips and pop eyes. You dont achieve anything more by adding pellets. They do however mix in the different variants of pepper spray into the water. Some countries use regular pellet guns, for example India in Kashmir with the expected result of a lot of lost eyes.
newguy1234 7y ago
If they turn to lethal weapons then political support for them would probably break down very quickly, especially from foreign powers.
- mistermann 7y ago
  As long as commerce keeps flowing, I think China has high enough self esteem that they'll do just fine losing some popularity, and I can't see Western corporations putting any money where their mouths are. Actually, no corporations have really commented on the matter as far as I know, so they're not even being hypocritical. There is so much money on the line, it would have to get incredibly bloody before anyone would do anything, so I think China has lots of leeway, and I've seen nothing to indicate they're not incredibly sharp.

HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago

This is one of those things that might just be good to know for whatever reason in the future. Thanks for the post.

cf498 7y ago
As no one else mentioned it, depending on which country you are in, you should never try to pick up a tear gas canister shot/thrown at you as you might confuse it with a flash bang in the heat of the moment. There is a long list of people in France who tried to throw back flash bang grenades and lost a hand as a result.
- snag 7y ago
  Tear gas grenades used in France are GLI-F4's ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLI-F4_grenade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLI-F4_grenade) and not flash bangs. It actually contains more TNT than CS gas to get a blast effect (similar to flash bangs)
  - cf498 7y ago
    Had to read up a bit, but either way i seem to have mixed something up. I did not know the French tear gas grenades also had TNT in them. But I read about such flashbang/teargas mixups before their introduction in 2011. The non french sources are a bit muddy, but Vital Michalon seems to have died at Superphénix due to a sock grenade damaging his lungs? But nevertheless it seems i mixed up France with Switzerland here. Though I cant find the original source I had in mind, Guy Smallman had his leg severely injured in Geneva during the 2003 G8 summit by a shock grenade. https://web.archive.org/web/20130507090403/http://www.nujadm.org.uk/2009/photographer-guy-smallman-wins-geneva-case/ https://web.archive.org/web/20130507090403/http://www.nujadm... Thanks for the heads up!

Synaesthesia 7y ago

The inventor of tear gas never meant for it to be used against civilians protesting.

hutzlibu 7y ago
And since chemical weapons are banned for military, I rrad the morbid explanation for research in the area is "no worries, it will not be used in combat, just for crowd control".

idlewords 7y ago

The Hong Kong police raise a banner warning of "tear smoke" when they're about to fire, and this is a much less confusing name for the stuff than tear gas. A cartridge of something hot and smoking skitters at your feet. You can throw it back, or douse it with water, or immerse it in water, but you'll burn your hand if you don't have gloves on. The smoke is a powerful irritant that feels like someone blew pepper into your eyes and nose. If the residue gets on your skin and clothes, you can tear gas yourself later by accident. Goggles and a particulate filter mask protect against it. That's really all you need to know about tear gas.

kweks 7y ago
I have experienced several riots (Hong Kong 2019, Hong Kong 2013, Istanbul 2013, Paris 2019..) where gas was deployed. Your comments are pithy and correct. What is interesting is observing theearning curve of the protest participants, who rapidly learn and adapt, but always seem initially underprepared.
- WildGreenLeave 7y ago
  You sparked my interest here :-) Why have you experienced so many different riots? Are you a reporter, a protestor or something else?
  - kweks 7y ago
    Right place at the wrong time, mainly. The Istanbul protests were the exception, as I knew several people and wanted to see the situation personally. What is true is that Life Goes On. Even in Istanbul or Paris with the huge protests, if you're not in that specific part of town at that specific moment, you wouldn't even know it was happening. Hotels in HK are wildly cheap at the moment.. it's the time to visit a tourist free city and witness (for better or for worse) history in motion
    - idlewords 7y ago
      I agree that it's an excellent time to visit Hong Kong if you do not mind the risk of travel disruption (airport delays or trouble getting around on public transit). This is not a violent society even now, and travelers are not at risk in my opinion.

nodesocket 7y ago

When I was down in Santiago Chile, I actually got tear tear gassed as it was deployed in huge amounts to break up protests. The police down in Chile don't mess around, at first signs of a protest they bring out the armored vehicles and just start firing away. It was brutal but also exciting besides the burning, coughing, and watered eyes for nearly an hour.

pedalpete 7y ago
I was going to comment the same thing. I used to live across from the park in Providencia. Even on New Years, just to clear the streets, police tear-gassed the streets in Valpo.

d03-dsd 7y ago

This is what disguised propaganda looks like, obviously the post is not about "How tear gas works"

dfgbnjhjjj 7y ago

Arschloch

jonplackett 7y ago

> Potassium nitrate particularly helps charcoal burn faster, according to Wired. Is it just me, or is it weird for Wired Magazine to the the source of knowledge for chemistry?

Shivetya 7y ago
Odder for me were the informative articles on SyFy's site Bad Astronomy section. I will take good and interesting information wherever I can get it. Isn't that what makes the internet great? That we have so many sources that we are bound to come across something we had little to no knowledge of and then have the ability to cross check it?

JulianMorrison 7y ago

A lacrosse stick is perfect for scooping and chucking this stuff back. A tennis racket would work too. And the HK protesters have successfully used traffic cones as a way to contain and extinguish it.

whenchamenia 7y ago
Anything possibly weapon-like is often discuraged at protests. Most want to be non-violent, even if there is resistance. A boot or a heavy gloved hand is fine.

RickJWagner 7y ago

I experienced tear gas first hand, as part of US Air Force training. It's terrible. Your eyes water, fluids pour out of your nose and down your throat, you choke. Truly an effective invention.

PavlikPaja 7y ago

Fun fact: The Geneva convention forbids the use of tear gas at war.

vaylian 7y ago
I was wondering about exactly that when I read the article. The description of how it works is really gruesome. Many policemen themselves have probably no clue how it works.
xkcd-sucks 7y ago
Torture is considered worse than killing... but weapons made for inflicting pain are totally okay (domestically)

roflchoppa2 7y ago

Need to get this information to the people of Kashmir.