7 ms·

This is dreadful. It seems more widespread than anything I've heard about in the US, but chillingly I fear the difference is only in degree, not kind. Plenty of

This is dreadful. It seems more widespread than anything I've heard about in the US, but chillingly I fear the difference is only in degree, not kind. Plenty of Americans have been shamed and persecuted for holding "unacceptable" views, including views that were widely accepted not so long ago. Ideally articles like this will scare us away from wandering further down that path, but I'm not optimistic.

chillwaves 7y ago
> "unacceptable" views Outside of racism, sexism and homophobia, I'm not sure what you are referring to. Any examples? Climate change denial too. Sure. My point is these views generate real harm to society. How do we progress if large segments of society considers other segments genetically inferior, worthy of extermination? Religion is another. Did I miss any? What view was recently acceptable but is no longer?
- geowwy 7y ago
  The point is that mob justice is bad, not that those things are good.
- __s 7y ago
  What if I told you that just because I have a different opinion than you about people who don't identity with their biological gender doesn't mean I think some segment of the population is worthy of extermination? Your post proves the OP's point. They implied that they have a different point of view on _something_, & you've attacked them for it Do you believe all views you consider acceptable today will be correct in a decade? You can instead make the argument that our views are monotonically converging towards "the right view" but that's acting like something can never reemerge from being out of fashion & consider this: acceptable is within your subculture. How are you going to interact with a different subculture that doesn't hold your views? Cultures need to avoid shouting down anyone who votes differently at the ballot box
- op9a0wii 7y ago
  Here are some: - Called racist and sexist if you disapprove of affirmative action in schools or the workplace (which by the way, polls consistently have shown the majority of Americans disapprove of AA) - Called transphobic if you don't want transgender women competing in sports with biological women, because of the unfair advantage - Called homophobic if you think gay pride parades are not a good idea (even if you're not anti-gay, you just think parades in general are disruptive to cities and streets, and also don't want almost-naked leathered men walking around your neighborhood) - Called sexist if you suggest that rape victims should go to the police as soon as possible after, rather than wait months or years later. Or that perhaps universities shouldn't be acting like courts without due process, and cases should go to the police instead. - And do you remember when Firefox's CEO was forced to resign because he donated to an anti-gay marriage prop (that actually won with >50% of the vote?) I mean, maybe the guy was just for civil unions instead, who knows what his reasoning was. None of these views would make someone actually racist or sexist but they are unacceptable to say publicly in left-leaning places like Silicon Valley.
  - NotSammyHagar 7y ago
    Parades don't hurt anything - violent parades might be said to be harmful but gay pride parades aren't violent. You'll have to come up with a good reason to justify a claim that gay pride parades hurt anything. There's a complex line separating racists and independent thinkers who have some uncommon view, that difference between "people are mean to me and I can't express my minority opinions safely" and "my horrible beliefs should just be accepted". Saying gay parades are a bad idea is close to claiming that allowing gay people (tolerating their existence) is a bad idea as I see it. There are gay people. They don't hurt anything. There are women programmers, they don't hurt anything and encouraging more women to become programmers should help us make better software that is germane to more situations. Today no one can reasonably claim that there was any good by laws prohibiting black and white people from marrying or having children. Yet until recently (say 1970s) this was a very common view! Probably in my southern state it was a view into the 1990s. Claiming that polls show the majority of people oppose AA isn't adequate to argue either direction.
    - 7y ago
- topmonk 7y ago
  Even if you're right, what is doxxing going to accomplish? Do you think you can punish people into thinking the way you do?
  - chillwaves 7y ago
    Show me where I advocated for doxxing. It's extremely dishonest for you to suggest that I did. I didn't. You are a liar.
- cf498 7y ago
  Being (called) a communist and having to name names in front of the HUAC wasnt that long ago.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >Outside of racism, sexism and homophobia, I'm not sure what you are referring to. Any examples? The above would be a good example itself. What's quite often branded "racism, sexism, and homophobia" could be nothing like a racist/sexist/homophobe bigot from 10-20 years ago, and just what most would consider totally normal then. E.g. two guys making a "dongle" joke (when a dongle was shown on screen) among themselves at a conference, and being fired for it. Or somebody believing a 6 or 10 year old child is not old enough to decide and be helped on things like "sexual transition" (and that in many cases it's the parents using it for their 15 minutes of fame and "you're so brave" kudos). Or somebody calling out trans men who simultaneously identify as lesbians and want lesbians to have sex with them else they deem them TERFs, or want to compete in women's sports events Or people who don't think asking to perform a sexual act, getting the OK, and then doing it (like Louis CK) is horrible sexism (or it is because you're more famous than the person who consented). In fact even daring to question such cases (which wouldn't be considered bigotry or sexism or whatever 10 or 20 years ago, even among progressives), is enough to brand someone as a bigot. Heck, even someone like Camille Paglia gets the same slack...
justicezyx 7y ago
Considering how PC advocates doxxes people holding other political views, and the backfire that caused today's Trump situation, this should be dreaded!
mhb 7y ago
A Feminist Capitalist Professor Under Fire The students who demand her firing, Camille Paglia argues, take prosperity for granted, are socially undeveloped, and know little about Western history. Who’s Moses? https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-feminist-capitalist-professor-under-fire-11567201511 https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-feminist-capitalist-professor...
beepboopbeep 7y ago
Here come the aggrieved-by-proxy to regale us with tales from the internet about people being mean to people vaguely similar to them selves. Let's listen in on today's strawmen
- throwaway5d097 7y ago
  Identity politics is such made up right-wing bullshit. It's clear that you have to belong to a certain group to discuss anything to do with them, unless you are telling minorities what's best for them because you know better. People are not getting their views strawmanned leading to their characters and careers being destroyed and being inundated with death threats unless they deserve it, clearly.

chillwaves 7y ago

> "unacceptable" views Outside of racism, sexism and homophobia, I'm not sure what you are referring to. Any examples? Climate change denial too. Sure. My point is these views generate real harm to society. How do we progress if large segments of society considers other segments genetically inferior, worthy of extermination? Religion is another. Did I miss any? What view was recently acceptable but is no longer?

geowwy 7y ago
The point is that mob justice is bad, not that those things are good.
__s 7y ago
What if I told you that just because I have a different opinion than you about people who don't identity with their biological gender doesn't mean I think some segment of the population is worthy of extermination? Your post proves the OP's point. They implied that they have a different point of view on _something_, & you've attacked them for it Do you believe all views you consider acceptable today will be correct in a decade? You can instead make the argument that our views are monotonically converging towards "the right view" but that's acting like something can never reemerge from being out of fashion & consider this: acceptable is within your subculture. How are you going to interact with a different subculture that doesn't hold your views? Cultures need to avoid shouting down anyone who votes differently at the ballot box
op9a0wii 7y ago
Here are some: - Called racist and sexist if you disapprove of affirmative action in schools or the workplace (which by the way, polls consistently have shown the majority of Americans disapprove of AA) - Called transphobic if you don't want transgender women competing in sports with biological women, because of the unfair advantage - Called homophobic if you think gay pride parades are not a good idea (even if you're not anti-gay, you just think parades in general are disruptive to cities and streets, and also don't want almost-naked leathered men walking around your neighborhood) - Called sexist if you suggest that rape victims should go to the police as soon as possible after, rather than wait months or years later. Or that perhaps universities shouldn't be acting like courts without due process, and cases should go to the police instead. - And do you remember when Firefox's CEO was forced to resign because he donated to an anti-gay marriage prop (that actually won with >50% of the vote?) I mean, maybe the guy was just for civil unions instead, who knows what his reasoning was. None of these views would make someone actually racist or sexist but they are unacceptable to say publicly in left-leaning places like Silicon Valley.
- NotSammyHagar 7y ago
  Parades don't hurt anything - violent parades might be said to be harmful but gay pride parades aren't violent. You'll have to come up with a good reason to justify a claim that gay pride parades hurt anything. There's a complex line separating racists and independent thinkers who have some uncommon view, that difference between "people are mean to me and I can't express my minority opinions safely" and "my horrible beliefs should just be accepted". Saying gay parades are a bad idea is close to claiming that allowing gay people (tolerating their existence) is a bad idea as I see it. There are gay people. They don't hurt anything. There are women programmers, they don't hurt anything and encouraging more women to become programmers should help us make better software that is germane to more situations. Today no one can reasonably claim that there was any good by laws prohibiting black and white people from marrying or having children. Yet until recently (say 1970s) this was a very common view! Probably in my southern state it was a view into the 1990s. Claiming that polls show the majority of people oppose AA isn't adequate to argue either direction.
  - 7y ago
topmonk 7y ago
Even if you're right, what is doxxing going to accomplish? Do you think you can punish people into thinking the way you do?
- chillwaves 7y ago
  Show me where I advocated for doxxing. It's extremely dishonest for you to suggest that I did. I didn't. You are a liar.
cf498 7y ago
Being (called) a communist and having to name names in front of the HUAC wasnt that long ago.
coldtea 7y ago
>Outside of racism, sexism and homophobia, I'm not sure what you are referring to. Any examples? The above would be a good example itself. What's quite often branded "racism, sexism, and homophobia" could be nothing like a racist/sexist/homophobe bigot from 10-20 years ago, and just what most would consider totally normal then. E.g. two guys making a "dongle" joke (when a dongle was shown on screen) among themselves at a conference, and being fired for it. Or somebody believing a 6 or 10 year old child is not old enough to decide and be helped on things like "sexual transition" (and that in many cases it's the parents using it for their 15 minutes of fame and "you're so brave" kudos). Or somebody calling out trans men who simultaneously identify as lesbians and want lesbians to have sex with them else they deem them TERFs, or want to compete in women's sports events Or people who don't think asking to perform a sexual act, getting the OK, and then doing it (like Louis CK) is horrible sexism (or it is because you're more famous than the person who consented). In fact even daring to question such cases (which wouldn't be considered bigotry or sexism or whatever 10 or 20 years ago, even among progressives), is enough to brand someone as a bigot. Heck, even someone like Camille Paglia gets the same slack...

justicezyx 7y ago

Considering how PC advocates doxxes people holding other political views, and the backfire that caused today's Trump situation, this should be dreaded!

mhb 7y ago

A Feminist Capitalist Professor Under Fire The students who demand her firing, Camille Paglia argues, take prosperity for granted, are socially undeveloped, and know little about Western history. Who’s Moses? https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-feminist-capitalist-professor-under-fire-11567201511 https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-feminist-capitalist-professor...

beepboopbeep 7y ago

Here come the aggrieved-by-proxy to regale us with tales from the internet about people being mean to people vaguely similar to them selves. Let's listen in on today's strawmen

throwaway5d097 7y ago
Identity politics is such made up right-wing bullshit. It's clear that you have to belong to a certain group to discuss anything to do with them, unless you are telling minorities what's best for them because you know better. People are not getting their views strawmanned leading to their characters and careers being destroyed and being inundated with death threats unless they deserve it, clearly.