4 ms·

> Obviously, no deal is bad for the UK and the EU too, but how can the UK Government negotiate with their hands tied? You have succinctly described one of the

> Obviously, no deal is bad for the UK and the EU too, but how can the UK Government negotiate with their hands tied? You have succinctly described one of the devastating flaws in the Brexit idea. The UK has very little leverage and the EU has a lot of incentive to make it very painful for the UK, as a warning to other would be EU deserters.

beaner 7y ago
When you put it that way it makes it sound like an organization that just strongarms others into joining it, rather than it maybe actually being in their best interest.
- amerine 7y ago
  “Just strongarms” feels an awful lot like you are coming with your own perspectives. I definitely did not read it that way.
- GVIrish 7y ago
  It's not quite that in my opinion. At the time the original union was thought to have big benefits for all members, and it did. Strongarming wasn't driving things as much as perceived mutual benefit. But now with one of the biggest countries in the union looking to leave, it threatens the entire idea. Kinda like if the United States actually left NATO. In both cases it is in the alliance's best interests to 'keep the band together'. Brexit was sold to voters with the promise that somehow the UK could work out a comparably favorable trade deal with the EU without having to agree to freedom of movement, EU regulations, payments to the EU, etc. If EU gave them such a deal, why should any other country abide by the requirements of the union?
eloff 7y ago
Yeah, there is a huge power imbalance at play in Brexit and that can't be waved away by any of the politicians involved. Brexit is a huge deal for the UK. It's a much smaller concern for the EU.
- deleted 7y ago
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yongjik 7y ago
Eh, I don't think EU has a lot of incentive to "make it painful" for the UK. It just has zero incentives to give UK's interests a higher priority than (the rest of) EU's interests. That it amounts to the UK being stuck in a very painful situation is not exactly EU's fault - it's not like EU taunted the UK to leave or something.
- smacktoward 7y ago
  The incentive for the EU is that, if leaving the Union turns out to be painless and consequence-free, other EU member states might decide to do it themselves, which could unravel the entire project. Whereas if it turns out to be a protracted, painful process that cripples the leaving state's economy, that example will serve to dissuade others from trying it.
  - jvzr 7y ago
    I think what gp is trying to say, is that the EU does not have to make it painful for UK: it already is, de facto. Sure, it's better if the process is painful, to make probable exiters think again, but in this case it's not EU's doing: it's 100% self-inflicted. I do hope for the British' sake that they get a deal soon.

beaner 7y ago

When you put it that way it makes it sound like an organization that just strongarms others into joining it, rather than it maybe actually being in their best interest.

amerine 7y ago
“Just strongarms” feels an awful lot like you are coming with your own perspectives. I definitely did not read it that way.
GVIrish 7y ago
It's not quite that in my opinion. At the time the original union was thought to have big benefits for all members, and it did. Strongarming wasn't driving things as much as perceived mutual benefit. But now with one of the biggest countries in the union looking to leave, it threatens the entire idea. Kinda like if the United States actually left NATO. In both cases it is in the alliance's best interests to 'keep the band together'. Brexit was sold to voters with the promise that somehow the UK could work out a comparably favorable trade deal with the EU without having to agree to freedom of movement, EU regulations, payments to the EU, etc. If EU gave them such a deal, why should any other country abide by the requirements of the union?

eloff 7y ago

Yeah, there is a huge power imbalance at play in Brexit and that can't be waved away by any of the politicians involved. Brexit is a huge deal for the UK. It's a much smaller concern for the EU.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

yongjik 7y ago

Eh, I don't think EU has a lot of incentive to "make it painful" for the UK. It just has zero incentives to give UK's interests a higher priority than (the rest of) EU's interests. That it amounts to the UK being stuck in a very painful situation is not exactly EU's fault - it's not like EU taunted the UK to leave or something.

smacktoward 7y ago
The incentive for the EU is that, if leaving the Union turns out to be painless and consequence-free, other EU member states might decide to do it themselves, which could unravel the entire project. Whereas if it turns out to be a protracted, painful process that cripples the leaving state's economy, that example will serve to dissuade others from trying it.
- jvzr 7y ago
  I think what gp is trying to say, is that the EU does not have to make it painful for UK: it already is, de facto. Sure, it's better if the process is painful, to make probable exiters think again, but in this case it's not EU's doing: it's 100% self-inflicted. I do hope for the British' sake that they get a deal soon.