4 ms·

Having a say before understanding the deal on offer is another matter though.

• busterarm 7y ago
  That's the thing about any change in governance though...you fundamentally cannot know what will come out the other side. Nobody wages war or starts a revolution knowing what the outcome will be either. That's the nature of change. We're fortunate enough to live in a world where we can vote for change instead of kill for it.
  • jibal 7y ago
    "you fundamentally cannot know what will come out the other side" This is a baseless and false claim. "Nobody wages war or starts a revolution knowing what the outcome will be either" Even if true, this isn't relevant ... it cherry picks extremely chaotic changes to shore up a completely invalid argument. "That's the nature of change." No, it isn't ... well understood, predictable changes are executed all the time. "We're fortunate enough to live in a world where we can vote for change instead of kill for it." Not relevant.
    • busterarm 7y ago
      >>"you fundamentally cannot know what will come out the other side" > This is a baseless and false claim. Last I checked it's impossible to predict the future. Please educate me otherwise, because we'll make a fortune in the bond markets.
      • jibal 7y ago
        google "science"
  • eloff 7y ago
    None of that means I can't have a second say after two years and a better understanding of the repercussions. In HN speak I need to evaluate my trajectory and either pivot our stay the course. Just not allowing myself that freedom is just bad policy film a personal, business, or political perspective. People can and sometimes should have a chance to change their minds.
    • busterarm 7y ago
      A political system has to survive the reality that some voters are stupid. Which voters are stupid is surely a point of contention, but in the climate where everyone is convinced of their righteousness, everyone thinks someone is stupid. You cannot helicopter parent your voting populace. Otherwise votes just don't matter. If you feel that way, don't give people the right to vote in the first place. Your political system has to provide an environment where the government (as in the will of the people) can safely fail at doing something important. IMO, regardless of what is correct, a handful of insane politicians in the UK played a stupid game thinking they could avert a minor crisis and instead created a catastrophe. Those responsible should be pilloried and everyone should learn a great lesson from this. That said, I think that if the UK wants to remain intact, it is forced to take it on the chin and follow through with this. Afterwards, the country can unite and pick up the pieces and fix it. The EU should also realize the opportunity it has here and be lenient. The problem is that France and Germany can't stand the threat to their Union and will throw their weight around like the bullies they are. The Scandinavians will be convinced as always that they're just better than everyone else and let the UK suffer. The smaller EU countries simultaneously don't give a shit and also await the conclusion of this so they can see which way the wind blows. I think if it goes up for referendum again, we'll actually see only 60% of the voter turnout of the last one. Could still go either way. In either case, the UK won't survive it. The only way forward is through.
      • somebadguy 7y ago
        You are an ignorant cunt. Jog on loser
      • eloff 7y ago
        No, I disagree completely. There's nothing wrong with having a chance to change your mind once you better understand what's at stake. This business of I chose two years ago and now I'm stuck is like if you chose a career and could never change it, or got married and could never get divorced. This is not helicopter parenting, it's just part of growing as a human being. It's better to leave yourself open to having a different/better thought in the future. Incidentally that's my biggest problem with tattoos.
• pessimizer 7y ago
  People don't understand any more about the deal (or lack of one) than they did before they voted. They've just been subjected to endless Y2K-scale hype for an extended period of time.
  • eloff 7y ago
    That's wrong and also an unnecessarily patronizing view of the intelligence of the people of the UK. People are smarter and have a better ability to learn complex topics than they get credit for. It's more a problem of garbage in garbage out.
  • purple_ducks 7y ago
    > People don't understand any more about the deal (or lack of one) than they did before they voted. They now know the realities of a no-deal and the implications it will have. That's a lot more than they knew before the vote.
  • IanCal 7y ago
    Since the deal did not exist before the original vote, it would be hard for people to understand less about it now.