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The thing is, it is a backwards way to look at things. Regular students shouldn't need to deal with frustrations of windows machines and learn all the skills ne

The thing is, it is a backwards way to look at things. Regular students shouldn't need to deal with frustrations of windows machines and learn all the skills needed to solve issues with OS just to perform their school-related tasks. I, personally, see the value in those skills, but for students who are not interested in it, it is just an unnecessary hassle and a source of frustration. It's like saying that having an easily repairable, but not that reliable or user-friendly, car is a good opportunity to learn problem-solving and basic vehicle maintenance skills. As someone not interested in that, I just want a reliable device that will drive me in comfort and convenience from point A to point B without making me worry about having to fix anything.

geebee 7y ago
We're programmers, and I am aware that I need to keep that in mind. But I think reliability vs. hackability is a false dilemma. Personally, I worry about having to fix something when I'm incapable of fixing it. That's why it stresses me out when my car or washing machine breaks. But true, that breaks all the time just because I can fix it with a trip to the hardware store. The thing is... well, sure, easily repairable but not reliable isn't necessarily a trade off that needs to happen. Google could have done what apple did with OsX, but at a realistic price point. An easy to use, affordable and reliable UI with astonishing power right beneath the surface, all based on Unix, in the hands of millions of school aged kids. This could have been the Commodore 64 or apple II times a thousand. Instead, we have the Chromebook. Note I deleted the last line which on reflection was excessive and not useful to the discussion.
- NotSammyHagar 7y ago
  What you describe is not a chromebook in 2019. I have android apps, and linux apps. I can run different versions of linux, run gui tools and many people are using atom, and all the other editors. This is precisely what a chromebook allows in 2019 with crostini.
andai 7y ago
I think it was meant to be a joke. But in all seriousness, one of the main reasons I continue to use linux, despite the technical problems, is precisely the technical problems. I like figuring things out and solving them. The old advice, if you want to get good at computers, use unix, still holds true today, precisely because it won't hold your hand.
- filoleg 7y ago
  Now that you mentioned it, i can see how it can be interpreted as a joke. However, looking at all the other replies, a lot of people seem to actually seriously hold that belief. I agree with you on the rest, however. I, personally, enjoy learning about computing by fixing stuff, hacking, etc. However, this won't hold true for everyone, and they shouldn't be subjected to this weird form of hazing with "we got through it, you gotta do it too, otherwise you won't learn all those computer skills (that you don't care about at all)!" Reminds me a bit of some people in the US being almost religious about driving a car with a manual transmission. I get it, it is fun sometimes, and a pretty cool skill to have, but I am glad that most people in the US don't have to deal with that unless they want to. I had to learn it (because 99% of motorcycles still come in manual transmission only), but I do not think that manual is some life changing skill that needs to be learned by everyone. Those who need it will learn, those who don't will not, and it is a good thing we have this option. No need to force this on everyone.
- ocdtrekkie 7y ago
  Wasn't meant as a joke. Honest truth is people who aren't getting the opportunity to problem solve early are going to end up having much more difficulty later in life, and end up paying a significant portion of their income to Geek Squad-type support as more of their life is computerized and less of what they use they have even a passing understanding of. That being said, no, I don't think we should give kids a terminal window and tell them to figure it out from there, but we should definitely be giving them computers that give them the opportunity to peel back the layers, and then we should encourage them to do so.
  - filoleg 7y ago

geebee 7y ago

We're programmers, and I am aware that I need to keep that in mind. But I think reliability vs. hackability is a false dilemma. Personally, I worry about having to fix something when I'm incapable of fixing it. That's why it stresses me out when my car or washing machine breaks. But true, that breaks all the time just because I can fix it with a trip to the hardware store. The thing is... well, sure, easily repairable but not reliable isn't necessarily a trade off that needs to happen. Google could have done what apple did with OsX, but at a realistic price point. An easy to use, affordable and reliable UI with astonishing power right beneath the surface, all based on Unix, in the hands of millions of school aged kids. This could have been the Commodore 64 or apple II times a thousand. Instead, we have the Chromebook. Note I deleted the last line which on reflection was excessive and not useful to the discussion.

NotSammyHagar 7y ago
What you describe is not a chromebook in 2019. I have android apps, and linux apps. I can run different versions of linux, run gui tools and many people are using atom, and all the other editors. This is precisely what a chromebook allows in 2019 with crostini.

andai 7y ago

I think it was meant to be a joke. But in all seriousness, one of the main reasons I continue to use linux, despite the technical problems, is precisely the technical problems. I like figuring things out and solving them. The old advice, if you want to get good at computers, use unix, still holds true today, precisely because it won't hold your hand.

filoleg 7y ago
Now that you mentioned it, i can see how it can be interpreted as a joke. However, looking at all the other replies, a lot of people seem to actually seriously hold that belief. I agree with you on the rest, however. I, personally, enjoy learning about computing by fixing stuff, hacking, etc. However, this won't hold true for everyone, and they shouldn't be subjected to this weird form of hazing with "we got through it, you gotta do it too, otherwise you won't learn all those computer skills (that you don't care about at all)!" Reminds me a bit of some people in the US being almost religious about driving a car with a manual transmission. I get it, it is fun sometimes, and a pretty cool skill to have, but I am glad that most people in the US don't have to deal with that unless they want to. I had to learn it (because 99% of motorcycles still come in manual transmission only), but I do not think that manual is some life changing skill that needs to be learned by everyone. Those who need it will learn, those who don't will not, and it is a good thing we have this option. No need to force this on everyone.
ocdtrekkie 7y ago
Wasn't meant as a joke. Honest truth is people who aren't getting the opportunity to problem solve early are going to end up having much more difficulty later in life, and end up paying a significant portion of their income to Geek Squad-type support as more of their life is computerized and less of what they use they have even a passing understanding of. That being said, no, I don't think we should give kids a terminal window and tell them to figure it out from there, but we should definitely be giving them computers that give them the opportunity to peel back the layers, and then we should encourage them to do so.
- filoleg 7y ago