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Please stop advocating for Telegram: https://gizmodo.com/why-you-should-stop-using-telegram-right-now-1782557415 https://gizmodo.com/why-you-should-stop-using-

Please stop advocating for Telegram: https://gizmodo.com/why-you-should-stop-using-telegram-right-now-1782557415 https://gizmodo.com/why-you-should-stop-using-telegram-right... https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/987372998935105539 https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/987372998935105539 Signal is definitely the more secure choice, but Whatsapp is still king of the network effect at least in my neck of the woods.

jquery 7y ago
That Gizmodo article is 3 years old, is it still true?
- Godel_unicode 7y ago
  The tptacek tweet is not, and yes.
wozniacki 7y ago
Could you elaborate on why you single out Telegram as a privacy deal-breaker as opposed to other similar apps? If they all are just as bad, is there something coming up on the near horizon thats worth the wait?
- Godel_unicode 7y ago
  They are replying to a comment about Telegram, and mention other messaging apps which are better. They also do not say that they're all just as bad, unclear where you got that from?
  - wozniacki 7y ago
    I just asked for elaboration. I don't get whats so confusing about that. The cited article is over 3 years old, from a site whose parent company's founder got sued out of existence for leaking private sex tapes.[1] Is that what we consider the standard bearer for technical opinions on apps? Or do you belong to some kind of voting ring that downvotes opinions on apps they don't like? [1] Gawker to Pay Hulk Hogan $31 Million to Settle Sex Tape Lawsuit https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/nick-denton-announces-gawker-settlement-hulk-hogan-943414 https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/nick-denton-announ... [2] Gawker.com to shut down next week https://www.politico.com/media/story/2016/08/gawkercom-to-shut-down-004724 https://www.politico.com/media/story/2016/08/gawkercom-to-sh...
MayeulC 7y ago
Yes, Signal is probably the more secure choice. That said, I use it a lot less now that I know that it is neither self-hostable, nor really open to third-party clients. I would like to get rid of Android at some point, and I am tired of relying on third parties not to discontinue their products. Nowadays, I use Matrix. There are a few downsides (the python server implementation makes the biggest public server quite slow, E2E isn't turned on by default yer -- though it should be at some point, and the clients' UX is generally rough around the edges). And yeah, whatsapp is king of the network effect, though messenger would take the crown in my circles. That said, by deliberately staying out of these services, and providing my reasons, people ask me for alternatives they could use. One thing that I like about Matrix is its compatibility with multiple bridges, which lets me connect with people on networks such as IRC, Discord, Telegram, etc. (depending on bridge availability). There is no public whatsapp bridge due to their TOS, and I haven't decided to give them my social graph just yet (though they probably have it already, thanks to having access to my friends'address books). I'd really like to see an officially-endorsed Matrix bridge. If people really want to contact me, they can still phone me, write me an SMS, e-mail or a letter. Many still bother, but I get it's a tough call for simple acquaintances. I still feel it's worth it holding to your principles. That's what they are for, and small numbers make the big numbers in the long run.
codedokode 7y ago
Signal requires a phone number as well as Telegram.
novaRom 7y ago
Update 8/31/2019: After publication of this article Telegram’s creators implemented several changes that are recognized by qualified cryptographers as a vast improvement to its encryption scheme. Since 2017, for example, the MTProto protocol has been recognized as IND-CCA secure.
- nickik 7y ago
  Its still not actually on by default and you can't use encrypted chat synced between your desktop and phone. Group chats also don't have encryption and (last I checked) count be run e2e encrypted. Probably 99%+ of conversation on Telegram are visible to the Telegram company.
anoncake 7y ago
Please stop advocating for Signal: https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issuecomment-217211165 https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issueco... Signal is just as non-free as WhatsApp.
- SquareWheel 7y ago
  What's wrong with that comment? They're under no obligation to support forks of their product.
emptysongglass 7y ago
You can pry Telegram from my cold, dead hands. Open source clients with cloud sync of messages plus the option of moving to encrypted end-to-end as needed is the perfect compromise. My one wish is for the server codebase to be open sourced but given that Telegram is in the midst of a backend architectural change to the Telegram Open Network, I forgive them this, for now. Every alternative is riddled with issues: WhatsApp is controlled by Facebook who let's face it may as well be the face of evil for Silicon Valley today; Signal is controlled by a power-tripping maniac who refuses to work with the open source commons on releasing to package repos like F-Droid, the app itself also has major deliverability issues; Wire would be good if they just sorted their notifications on mobile out but I've been waiting for that day for a few years now; Matrix is slow to deliver messages among networks larger than a handful. There's your overview.

jquery 7y ago

That Gizmodo article is 3 years old, is it still true?

Godel_unicode 7y ago
The tptacek tweet is not, and yes.

wozniacki 7y ago

Could you elaborate on why you single out Telegram as a privacy deal-breaker as opposed to other similar apps? If they all are just as bad, is there something coming up on the near horizon thats worth the wait?

Godel_unicode 7y ago
They are replying to a comment about Telegram, and mention other messaging apps which are better. They also do not say that they're all just as bad, unclear where you got that from?
- wozniacki 7y ago
  I just asked for elaboration. I don't get whats so confusing about that. The cited article is over 3 years old, from a site whose parent company's founder got sued out of existence for leaking private sex tapes.[1] Is that what we consider the standard bearer for technical opinions on apps? Or do you belong to some kind of voting ring that downvotes opinions on apps they don't like? [1] Gawker to Pay Hulk Hogan $31 Million to Settle Sex Tape Lawsuit https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/nick-denton-announces-gawker-settlement-hulk-hogan-943414 https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/nick-denton-announ... [2] Gawker.com to shut down next week https://www.politico.com/media/story/2016/08/gawkercom-to-shut-down-004724 https://www.politico.com/media/story/2016/08/gawkercom-to-sh...

MayeulC 7y ago

Yes, Signal is probably the more secure choice. That said, I use it a lot less now that I know that it is neither self-hostable, nor really open to third-party clients. I would like to get rid of Android at some point, and I am tired of relying on third parties not to discontinue their products. Nowadays, I use Matrix. There are a few downsides (the python server implementation makes the biggest public server quite slow, E2E isn't turned on by default yer -- though it should be at some point, and the clients' UX is generally rough around the edges). And yeah, whatsapp is king of the network effect, though messenger would take the crown in my circles. That said, by deliberately staying out of these services, and providing my reasons, people ask me for alternatives they could use. One thing that I like about Matrix is its compatibility with multiple bridges, which lets me connect with people on networks such as IRC, Discord, Telegram, etc. (depending on bridge availability). There is no public whatsapp bridge due to their TOS, and I haven't decided to give them my social graph just yet (though they probably have it already, thanks to having access to my friends'address books). I'd really like to see an officially-endorsed Matrix bridge. If people really want to contact me, they can still phone me, write me an SMS, e-mail or a letter. Many still bother, but I get it's a tough call for simple acquaintances. I still feel it's worth it holding to your principles. That's what they are for, and small numbers make the big numbers in the long run.

codedokode 7y ago

Signal requires a phone number as well as Telegram.

novaRom 7y ago

Update 8/31/2019: After publication of this article Telegram’s creators implemented several changes that are recognized by qualified cryptographers as a vast improvement to its encryption scheme. Since 2017, for example, the MTProto protocol has been recognized as IND-CCA secure.

nickik 7y ago
Its still not actually on by default and you can't use encrypted chat synced between your desktop and phone. Group chats also don't have encryption and (last I checked) count be run e2e encrypted. Probably 99%+ of conversation on Telegram are visible to the Telegram company.

anoncake 7y ago

Please stop advocating for Signal: https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issuecomment-217211165 https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issueco... Signal is just as non-free as WhatsApp.

SquareWheel 7y ago
What's wrong with that comment? They're under no obligation to support forks of their product.

emptysongglass 7y ago

You can pry Telegram from my cold, dead hands. Open source clients with cloud sync of messages plus the option of moving to encrypted end-to-end as needed is the perfect compromise. My one wish is for the server codebase to be open sourced but given that Telegram is in the midst of a backend architectural change to the Telegram Open Network, I forgive them this, for now. Every alternative is riddled with issues: WhatsApp is controlled by Facebook who let's face it may as well be the face of evil for Silicon Valley today; Signal is controlled by a power-tripping maniac who refuses to work with the open source commons on releasing to package repos like F-Droid, the app itself also has major deliverability issues; Wire would be good if they just sorted their notifications on mobile out but I've been waiting for that day for a few years now; Matrix is slow to deliver messages among networks larger than a handful. There's your overview.