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Teachers try to sedate students because they have nothing valuable to teach. Only a small percentage of teachers have had a profession other than teaching. Som

Teachers try to sedate students because they have nothing valuable to teach. Only a small percentage of teachers have had a profession other than teaching. Some teachers have hobbies that make them interesting, many others do not. New Math/Discovery Math is a failure, because grade school teachers themselves have no idea what purpose it serves. Students with wealthy parents will do well; tutoring, travel, summer camps, all help with education and growth.

t-writescode 7y ago
I take offense to the implication here that just because you’ve only taught means you have nothing to teach. The finest English teacher I know has taught for the vast majority of her career and her methods have a thoroughly proven record of improving writing and reading in students from every walk of life. She has a doctorate in education now, with a dissertation on improving learning methods and and numerous students over her 25 year career have contacted her and thanked her for specifically her methods and pressure that got those students to succeed, not just in her class, but in college and the future. There are many, horrible teachers who would do better in a career where they are kept far from influencing the next generation, but this woman, with her majority-teaching-career, is not one of them, full stop.
- mymythisisthis 7y ago
  When discussing a group, we need to stay at a group level. Moving between individuals and a group as a whole is not constructive. Grade school teachers tend to graduate with degrees in English/History, and haven't had experiences in work outside of teaching grade school. My solution for this problem is better professional development. Make a 4 day work week, with one day of training in a new career (something completely not related to teaching/pedagogical development).
  - t-writescode 7y ago
    I have a strong suspicion that there are so many exceptions to your assumptions here that your model is wrong. My finest computer science teachers never did anything but teach, either. At the high school and collegiate levels. Same with my favorite college English teacher. I think a more effective route is to regularly fire the bad teachers, so they can’t harm students with their poor guidance.
  - moate 7y ago
    >>Teachers try to sedate students because they have nothing valuable to teach. Let's try and break this extreme opinion down into some components. What is "valuable" to you? Why would working outside of teaching help someone be better at teaching their subject matter? Is this statement for teachers across all levels, or just grade school? How is it that gross generalization opinions are constructive, but empirical personal experiences providing evidence that contradict that generalization aren't?
    - mymythisisthis 7y ago
      ""What is "valuable" to you?"" I think that these ideas of relativism are dying. I respect people that are good in their field. I value science and disparage things like alternative medicines. "empirical personal experiences" - this is wrong, personal experience are not empirical. Was my statement a gross generalization, sure. But; -most grade school teachers have graduated with very liberal arts degrees, -there has been a steady devaluation of degrees, -many are young when they get hired as teachers, out of college, -wealthy families pay for extra tutoring, and camps, (wealth has always been the best factor in determining academic success), -in order to teach about something you need to know about something. If eduction was supposed to be a meritocracy, its failed. It's a systemic failure, no one person is responsible, no one person can save the educational system. Economy and class matter more than education, is the lesson of the last 30 years. Realists and pessimists have long concluded that the purpose of the educational system is to work as a babysitter, it's cost effective.
      - moate 7y ago
        Okay Mr. "I value Science", let's keep this going. First, all my basis is on the U.S. education system. If you're basing your idea on some other country, I'll tap out because I have no basis. >> this is wrong, personal experience are not empirical. All personal experience is, by definition, empirical. The definition of "empirical" is here: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/empirical https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/empirical. You're literally wrong. >>most grade school teachers have graduated with very liberal arts degrees Citation Needed. Is "Elementary Education" a "very liberal art"? Who is more qualified to teach 6-10 year olds if not someone with a Masters in Elementary Education (generally the minimum requirement) in your opinion? >>many are young when they get hired as teachers, out of college Your proposed solution doesn't address this. The 4/1 just means that teachers will now face an additional difficulty, finding a 2nd job to have "real world experience", in order to teach 7 year olds how to read and write. >>in order to teach about something you need to know about something. Of course. But there's millions of students spread across tens of thousands of school districts. IDK where we're suddenly going to find all of these domain experts willing to take lower pay and miss out on career advancement in exchange for educating children. >>Economy and class matter more than education, is the lesson of the last 30 years. I'm sorry, are you only 30 years old and therefor unaware that this is the lesson of the course of human history? Social and economic factors are your majority factors for everything, but that feeds directly into education by allowing for school choice (either by sending to private schools or moving into well funded, higher performing public schools). The fact that you're lumping the "realists and pessimists" together on who has decided what school actually is, shows your contempt for the system. I get that, you feel it's broken (so do I actually, but not at all for the reasons you do). I just find your idea that "all elementary school teachers are bad at their job" to be founded on poor/lacking data and a complete misunderstanding of the specifics of primary education.
  - NotSammyHagar 7y ago
    You generalize in a useless and offensive way. One could also say programmers have mostly only had one job, programmer, and they don't understand how society works and the needs of different jobs. Your solution for that could be better professional development too. Maybe all those tech bros need to get into the real world, see the problems that say teachers face so they can figure out what to focus on.
tathougies 7y ago
Yup. My mother entered school teaching after decades in the private sector. She had held several secretarial positions for CEOS, vice presidents, and other executives at large pharma, travel, etc companies. In other words, she understood corporate america. She entered teaching because that was her dream job, but one she was unable to enter as an immigrant to this country. She loved the idea of teaching and she had done a pretty good job on my brother and I. She wanted to be able to be home with us during the summer. It took her a few years after getting her credential to see the dysfunction in the system. Old teachers were unable to cope with the young children who need young, able bodied teachers able to deal with their very normal behaviors. Principals would get upset that my mother would allow the kids to go outside, even when recess wasn't scheduled. She had the highest marks in the school when it came to testing, but was denied tenure, because her methods of getting the job done were at odds with her principal. There was a large parental showing at the board meeting, and she ended up being put on administrative leave. Some of her students -- who no longer had to take ritalin to deal with his 'excessive' movement while she was their teacher -- ended up back on the drug. This was all in a lower-income district with a history of terrible results. From that point on, my entire family has shunned public schools. My brother and I were sent to private schools, and my mother always votes against every issue the teachers union supports. They enable the behavior. They encourage, ineffective, anti-competitive practices which harm students, and enable lazy teachers.
NotSammyHagar 7y ago
that isn't fair or accurate about teachers. It's just inflammatory. Teachers want to educate and work within the structures that districts allow. They don't pick laptops, the school district mandate textbooks. You've got an unrealistic idea of education.

t-writescode 7y ago

I take offense to the implication here that just because you’ve only taught means you have nothing to teach. The finest English teacher I know has taught for the vast majority of her career and her methods have a thoroughly proven record of improving writing and reading in students from every walk of life. She has a doctorate in education now, with a dissertation on improving learning methods and and numerous students over her 25 year career have contacted her and thanked her for specifically her methods and pressure that got those students to succeed, not just in her class, but in college and the future. There are many, horrible teachers who would do better in a career where they are kept far from influencing the next generation, but this woman, with her majority-teaching-career, is not one of them, full stop.

mymythisisthis 7y ago
When discussing a group, we need to stay at a group level. Moving between individuals and a group as a whole is not constructive. Grade school teachers tend to graduate with degrees in English/History, and haven't had experiences in work outside of teaching grade school. My solution for this problem is better professional development. Make a 4 day work week, with one day of training in a new career (something completely not related to teaching/pedagogical development).
- t-writescode 7y ago
  I have a strong suspicion that there are so many exceptions to your assumptions here that your model is wrong. My finest computer science teachers never did anything but teach, either. At the high school and collegiate levels. Same with my favorite college English teacher. I think a more effective route is to regularly fire the bad teachers, so they can’t harm students with their poor guidance.
- moate 7y ago
  >>Teachers try to sedate students because they have nothing valuable to teach. Let's try and break this extreme opinion down into some components. What is "valuable" to you? Why would working outside of teaching help someone be better at teaching their subject matter? Is this statement for teachers across all levels, or just grade school? How is it that gross generalization opinions are constructive, but empirical personal experiences providing evidence that contradict that generalization aren't?
  - mymythisisthis 7y ago
    ""What is "valuable" to you?"" I think that these ideas of relativism are dying. I respect people that are good in their field. I value science and disparage things like alternative medicines. "empirical personal experiences" - this is wrong, personal experience are not empirical. Was my statement a gross generalization, sure. But; -most grade school teachers have graduated with very liberal arts degrees, -there has been a steady devaluation of degrees, -many are young when they get hired as teachers, out of college, -wealthy families pay for extra tutoring, and camps, (wealth has always been the best factor in determining academic success), -in order to teach about something you need to know about something. If eduction was supposed to be a meritocracy, its failed. It's a systemic failure, no one person is responsible, no one person can save the educational system. Economy and class matter more than education, is the lesson of the last 30 years. Realists and pessimists have long concluded that the purpose of the educational system is to work as a babysitter, it's cost effective.
    - moate 7y ago
      Okay Mr. "I value Science", let's keep this going. First, all my basis is on the U.S. education system. If you're basing your idea on some other country, I'll tap out because I have no basis. >> this is wrong, personal experience are not empirical. All personal experience is, by definition, empirical. The definition of "empirical" is here: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/empirical https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/empirical. You're literally wrong. >>most grade school teachers have graduated with very liberal arts degrees Citation Needed. Is "Elementary Education" a "very liberal art"? Who is more qualified to teach 6-10 year olds if not someone with a Masters in Elementary Education (generally the minimum requirement) in your opinion? >>many are young when they get hired as teachers, out of college Your proposed solution doesn't address this. The 4/1 just means that teachers will now face an additional difficulty, finding a 2nd job to have "real world experience", in order to teach 7 year olds how to read and write. >>in order to teach about something you need to know about something. Of course. But there's millions of students spread across tens of thousands of school districts. IDK where we're suddenly going to find all of these domain experts willing to take lower pay and miss out on career advancement in exchange for educating children. >>Economy and class matter more than education, is the lesson of the last 30 years. I'm sorry, are you only 30 years old and therefor unaware that this is the lesson of the course of human history? Social and economic factors are your majority factors for everything, but that feeds directly into education by allowing for school choice (either by sending to private schools or moving into well funded, higher performing public schools). The fact that you're lumping the "realists and pessimists" together on who has decided what school actually is, shows your contempt for the system. I get that, you feel it's broken (so do I actually, but not at all for the reasons you do). I just find your idea that "all elementary school teachers are bad at their job" to be founded on poor/lacking data and a complete misunderstanding of the specifics of primary education.
- NotSammyHagar 7y ago
  You generalize in a useless and offensive way. One could also say programmers have mostly only had one job, programmer, and they don't understand how society works and the needs of different jobs. Your solution for that could be better professional development too. Maybe all those tech bros need to get into the real world, see the problems that say teachers face so they can figure out what to focus on.

tathougies 7y ago

Yup. My mother entered school teaching after decades in the private sector. She had held several secretarial positions for CEOS, vice presidents, and other executives at large pharma, travel, etc companies. In other words, she understood corporate america. She entered teaching because that was her dream job, but one she was unable to enter as an immigrant to this country. She loved the idea of teaching and she had done a pretty good job on my brother and I. She wanted to be able to be home with us during the summer. It took her a few years after getting her credential to see the dysfunction in the system. Old teachers were unable to cope with the young children who need young, able bodied teachers able to deal with their very normal behaviors. Principals would get upset that my mother would allow the kids to go outside, even when recess wasn't scheduled. She had the highest marks in the school when it came to testing, but was denied tenure, because her methods of getting the job done were at odds with her principal. There was a large parental showing at the board meeting, and she ended up being put on administrative leave. Some of her students -- who no longer had to take ritalin to deal with his 'excessive' movement while she was their teacher -- ended up back on the drug. This was all in a lower-income district with a history of terrible results. From that point on, my entire family has shunned public schools. My brother and I were sent to private schools, and my mother always votes against every issue the teachers union supports. They enable the behavior. They encourage, ineffective, anti-competitive practices which harm students, and enable lazy teachers.

NotSammyHagar 7y ago

that isn't fair or accurate about teachers. It's just inflammatory. Teachers want to educate and work within the structures that districts allow. They don't pick laptops, the school district mandate textbooks. You've got an unrealistic idea of education.