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> It's a hamburger after all, it's not meant to be healthy. Hamburgers aren’t inherently unhealthy (though I’ll concede that in practice they often are). A wel

by klmr 7y ago

> It's a hamburger after all, it's not meant to be healthy. Hamburgers aren’t inherently unhealthy (though I’ll concede that in practice they often are). A well-made hamburger contains part protein, vegetables and carbs. It’s a whole meal. A bit too heavy on the carbs maybe, but not extremely so. It can stand on its own with very few additional flavour components, and has the potential of being a more wholesome meal than many others. The issue, rather, is twofold. First, almost all burgers skimp on the veggies and generally use low-quality ingredients, instead relying on other flavour components (i.e. too much sugar and salt, and often added fat in the form of low-quality cheese and bacon). And secondly, burgers are umami bombs and lead people to overeat, both in terms of quantity (serving size) and frequency.

jniedrauer 7y ago
> A bit too heavy on the carbs maybe Fat and protein would be the problem. The typical American diet is very high in fat and protein. More carbs (low GI carbs with fiber) would make it healthier. To make a well balanced burger, you'd probably need to eliminate cheese, reduce the size of the patty significantly, use a whole wheat bun, and add plant fiber. You're basically replacing all of the ingredients.
- nightski 7y ago
  Hmm, I think you have it backwards. The fat and protein are the healthy parts (including saturated fats). If you take the bun out of the equation you actually have an incredibly nutritious meal - something my family does all the time. We've been on the keto diet for 8 years now and our blood & overall numbers look better than they have ever before in our lives.
  - evv555 7y ago
    >If you take the bun out of the equation you actually have an incredibly nutritious meal I would argue that a burger with bun included is balanced even for most low-carb diets. It's the addition of fries and a sugary drink that throws it out of balance. I was actually able to lose weight by replacing my routine soda/fries with an additional burger.
  - jniedrauer 7y ago
    I don't think encouraging a keto diet as the de facto "healthy diet" is responsible. Is it un-healthy? Maybe not. There's not enough research to say that conclusively. It's certainly not the standard though. I have been training hard for about a year now, trying to get my body into as ideal shape as I can get it. During that time, I've experimented with a wide range of diets, including keto. I was on keto for about 4 months. I was decently well fat adapted by the end of it, but I did not feel healthy. I was also not making progress in my training. I plateaued for for months. I switched to a "high carb" plant based diet and I haven't looked back since. My performance has skyrocketed, my fitness is building at a mind boggling pace, I sleep better, my skin is clearer, and I just feel healthier.
    - nightski 7y ago
      I never said that keto was the de facto healthy diet. I said that fat should not be demonized. There is a huge difference. Just because an athlete at peak performance can utilize carbs effectively does not mean the average person does.
- balls187 7y ago
  > The typical American diet is very high in fat and protein. And refined sugars and grains.
- rhinoceraptor 7y ago
  > The typical American diet is very high in fat and protein The average American eats significantly less fat, and more carbohydrate now than fifty years ago. Interesting how this trend appears to track perfectly with the rise of obesity... https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5304a3.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5304a3.htm
  - jniedrauer 7y ago
    > The decrease in the percentage of kcals from fat during 1971--1991 is attributed to an increase in total kcals consumed; absolute fat intake in grams increased This is very interesting data, but it doesn't say what you're implying it says. The condensed version is that people are eating more quantity, which is leading to increased obesity. And that's certainly the biggest factor. Macros are far less important that overall quantity.
    - rhinoceraptor 7y ago
      I agree, my point was that Americans aren't eating anything close to a high fat or high protein diet. And even people on extreme high fat diets can thrive, such as the classic ketogenic diet for epilepsy. Carbohydrate is the only non-essential macro.
balls187 7y ago
> Hamburgers aren’t inherently unhealthy ... lead people to overeat, both in terms of quantity (serving size) and frequency. Most (all?) foods aren't. It's less the quality of ingredients and more the latter you wrote about--the consumption rate relative to their nutritional values that makes the more or less healthy. Quality of ingredients may lend itself to poor nutritional values, but over-consumption is the bigger problem. Some foods are just too low in NV to over consume, like say broccoli. Others, are much easier, leading to the moniker of "unhealthy."
shlant 7y ago
> " A well-made hamburger contains part protein, vegetables and carbs. It’s a whole meal" Why do people continue to make nutritional arguments using macronutrients as the basis? Macronutrients tell you very little about how healthy something is. "It's a whole meal" - what does that even mean? What tells you if something is healthy is the nutritional value - vitamins, minerals, enzymes, antioxidants, phytonutrients etc. Just because something is high in protein or high in carbs or low in fat does not tell you whether it is healthy.
- randyrand 7y ago
  I can get those easily with multivitamin tablets. It's the macronutrients that matter when it comes to actual meals. A burger is not unhealthy, but eating only burgers probably is.
  - shlant 7y ago
    > "I can get those easily with multivitamin tablets" Multivitamins are not a replacement for a balanced diet[1], most likely provide very little protective health effects[2] and can, in some cases, be dangerous[3]. > It's the macronutrients that matter when it comes to actual meals Why? What difference does it make what ratios of macronutrients individual meals are comprised of? > A burger is not unhealthy, but eating only burgers probably is That's not saying much at all. You can probably say that about most edible things. 1. https://time.com/5564574/supplements-vitamins-health/ https://time.com/5564574/supplements-vitamins-health/ 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multivitamin#Research https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multivitamin#Research 3. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22419320 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22419320
erikpukinskis 7y ago
The main problem with a burger is that we eat them with fries and soft drinks. On its own it’s a very reasonable meal.

by klmr 7y ago

jniedrauer 7y ago

> A bit too heavy on the carbs maybe Fat and protein would be the problem. The typical American diet is very high in fat and protein. More carbs (low GI carbs with fiber) would make it healthier. To make a well balanced burger, you'd probably need to eliminate cheese, reduce the size of the patty significantly, use a whole wheat bun, and add plant fiber. You're basically replacing all of the ingredients.

nightski 7y ago
Hmm, I think you have it backwards. The fat and protein are the healthy parts (including saturated fats). If you take the bun out of the equation you actually have an incredibly nutritious meal - something my family does all the time. We've been on the keto diet for 8 years now and our blood & overall numbers look better than they have ever before in our lives.
- evv555 7y ago
  >If you take the bun out of the equation you actually have an incredibly nutritious meal I would argue that a burger with bun included is balanced even for most low-carb diets. It's the addition of fries and a sugary drink that throws it out of balance. I was actually able to lose weight by replacing my routine soda/fries with an additional burger.
- jniedrauer 7y ago
  I don't think encouraging a keto diet as the de facto "healthy diet" is responsible. Is it un-healthy? Maybe not. There's not enough research to say that conclusively. It's certainly not the standard though. I have been training hard for about a year now, trying to get my body into as ideal shape as I can get it. During that time, I've experimented with a wide range of diets, including keto. I was on keto for about 4 months. I was decently well fat adapted by the end of it, but I did not feel healthy. I was also not making progress in my training. I plateaued for for months. I switched to a "high carb" plant based diet and I haven't looked back since. My performance has skyrocketed, my fitness is building at a mind boggling pace, I sleep better, my skin is clearer, and I just feel healthier.
  - nightski 7y ago
    I never said that keto was the de facto healthy diet. I said that fat should not be demonized. There is a huge difference. Just because an athlete at peak performance can utilize carbs effectively does not mean the average person does.
balls187 7y ago
> The typical American diet is very high in fat and protein. And refined sugars and grains.
rhinoceraptor 7y ago
> The typical American diet is very high in fat and protein The average American eats significantly less fat, and more carbohydrate now than fifty years ago. Interesting how this trend appears to track perfectly with the rise of obesity... https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5304a3.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5304a3.htm
- jniedrauer 7y ago
  > The decrease in the percentage of kcals from fat during 1971--1991 is attributed to an increase in total kcals consumed; absolute fat intake in grams increased This is very interesting data, but it doesn't say what you're implying it says. The condensed version is that people are eating more quantity, which is leading to increased obesity. And that's certainly the biggest factor. Macros are far less important that overall quantity.
  - rhinoceraptor 7y ago
    I agree, my point was that Americans aren't eating anything close to a high fat or high protein diet. And even people on extreme high fat diets can thrive, such as the classic ketogenic diet for epilepsy. Carbohydrate is the only non-essential macro.

balls187 7y ago

> Hamburgers aren’t inherently unhealthy ... lead people to overeat, both in terms of quantity (serving size) and frequency. Most (all?) foods aren't. It's less the quality of ingredients and more the latter you wrote about--the consumption rate relative to their nutritional values that makes the more or less healthy. Quality of ingredients may lend itself to poor nutritional values, but over-consumption is the bigger problem. Some foods are just too low in NV to over consume, like say broccoli. Others, are much easier, leading to the moniker of "unhealthy."

shlant 7y ago

> " A well-made hamburger contains part protein, vegetables and carbs. It’s a whole meal" Why do people continue to make nutritional arguments using macronutrients as the basis? Macronutrients tell you very little about how healthy something is. "It's a whole meal" - what does that even mean? What tells you if something is healthy is the nutritional value - vitamins, minerals, enzymes, antioxidants, phytonutrients etc. Just because something is high in protein or high in carbs or low in fat does not tell you whether it is healthy.

randyrand 7y ago
I can get those easily with multivitamin tablets. It's the macronutrients that matter when it comes to actual meals. A burger is not unhealthy, but eating only burgers probably is.
- shlant 7y ago
  > "I can get those easily with multivitamin tablets" Multivitamins are not a replacement for a balanced diet[1], most likely provide very little protective health effects[2] and can, in some cases, be dangerous[3]. > It's the macronutrients that matter when it comes to actual meals Why? What difference does it make what ratios of macronutrients individual meals are comprised of? > A burger is not unhealthy, but eating only burgers probably is That's not saying much at all. You can probably say that about most edible things. 1. https://time.com/5564574/supplements-vitamins-health/ https://time.com/5564574/supplements-vitamins-health/ 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multivitamin#Research https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multivitamin#Research 3. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22419320 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22419320

erikpukinskis 7y ago

The main problem with a burger is that we eat them with fries and soft drinks. On its own it’s a very reasonable meal.