8 ms·

For our users in the US or using the en-US browser, we are shipping a new “New Tab” page experience that connects you to the best of Pocket’s content. Uhmmm...

by kuu 7y ago

pornel 7y ago
I don't see anyone complaining that Safari has a built-in Reader feature. Safari even has "Siri Suggestions" almost identical to this Firefox experiment. Pocket has been acquired by Mozilla, so it's not a 3rd party feature any more. It's really no different. It seems that some people are just used to hating Pocket as if it was some kind of tradition.
- Operyl 7y ago
  People are mostly hating the advertising on the New Page from Pocket, not Pocket itself these days. EDIT: Here's a screenshot of the feature specifically that people dislike these days: https://imgur.com/a/p2rD4AY https://imgur.com/a/p2rD4AY While it can be disabled, it can be said that people are a bit annoyed that the browser that is "Privacy Focused" is shoving ads down your throat. While we as technical users can figure out how to disable it easily (in the preferences), the less technically inclined might not know that they can be disabled.
  - gfodor 7y ago
    Advertising, tracking, and privacy are three separate concerns. We conflate them due to the way current advertising networks work: they track you, storing + analyzing the data in centralized servers (which violates your privacy), to deliver ads. You can deliver ads without tracking (for example, contextually based upon the page you are looking at, without any storage of that information or historical state.) And you can track users without violating their privacy (by not sending the data to a remote server and only analyzing it locally.) So in general, it's certainly possible to be able to preserve a user's privacy while also be monetizing your product through advertising. Now of course, most people dislike ads, which is a separate issue. But advertising is not inherently a violation of privacy, at least if you see privacy through the lens of surveillance by a third party. (You could stretch the definition of privacy to a point where seeing ads I suppose could be privacy violating, but I don't feel my privacy is being violated when I see a billboard on the highway, for example.)
    - namewasmypw 7y ago
      Advertising is an issue of user autonomy and a user's security in their autonomy. Users don't want to see ads. A browser that is supposed to be "for the users" shouldn't have its main screen be something that their users specifically do not want. For most of us, adware is a type of malware. For Mozilla, they have a tradeoff between user autonomy and cash flow. They can at least say that the bad things they do are because of the sacks of cash and not for any positive user "experience." Lying about it makes it worse, not better. Aside from ads, there is the issue that Firefox comes with backdoors (see Mr. Robot ad) and spyware (see telemetry that can't be opted out of.)
      - shabbyrobe 7y ago
        Which bits of telemetry can't be opted out of? I've set at least a hundred things in my about:config to tamp down on it but I'm never quite sure I've got all of them.
    - newshophours 7y ago
      I'm one of those "don't mind ads, do mind privacy intrusions" crowd. I'd be perfectly willing to turn off my adblocker for good if only advertisers would be willing to turn off their tracking and scripts and stick to only serving up JPEG banners. Alas, that's not likely. So I do what I can to use web services ethically - pay for services where possible (like Fastmail), whitelist when a site owner seems to be using ethical non-tracking ads, donate where appropriate (like open source developers looking for help with hosting fees).
    - ferzul 7y ago
      the data can be processed locally, but when my browser says, “get me the ad about debt relief”, it's leaking private info. that's why contextual ads are always better.
  - slavik81 7y ago
    If you follow the "How it works" link, they state that everyone is sent the same set of ads. Your local browser chooses what to recommend from that set. I was happy to see they designed it in a privacy-conscious manner.
  - addicted 7y ago
    It's a 1 click option to disable sponsored stories In the Settings>Home page, and on the desktop, the setting falls right in the middle of the screen, so it's not hidden away. And you can also use a single click to disable Pocket suggestions entirely. I honestly don't see any reason to complain there.
- pseudalopex 7y ago
  Mozilla killed a private Reading List feature and replaced it with Pocket. They carefully denied getting paid for the integration before eventually revealing that they got paid for new subscriptions. They promised to open source Pocket when they acquired it and still haven't. What Mozilla calls "the best of Pocket's content" is ads and articles that border on clickbait. Some people don't like marketing doublespeak.
  - cambalache 7y ago
    Genuine question,so which option do you recommend for linux/windows
    - pseudalopex 7y ago
      You can turn off the ads and clickbait. I still like Firefox more than other browsers. I still trust Mozilla more than other companies. I just think people have legitimate complaints.
Someone1234 7y ago
Say what you will about Firefox, but they do make it super easy to disable this nonsense. - Options -> Home -> Firefox Home Content -> Uncheck everything I personally leave "Web Search" enabled, which gives a Chrome-like/minimalist experience.
- Fnoord 7y ago
  Good advice. I just figured this out on my own, and thought it was reasonably easy enough. (You can also fiddle in about:config or click on the hamburger menu in about:home) Switch to a privacy-friendly search engine like DuckDuckGo while you're at it.
rom1v 7y ago
Even on Android, I was confused by a list of spam "news" on the home page in Firefox 68.0.2. To disable it: Settings, General, Home, Top Sites, disable "Recommended by Pocket".
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
veidr 7y ago
I'm even OK with this feature, just not with the we're shipping a new “New Tab” page experience that connects you to the best of... drone-speak T_T
- jchook 7y ago
  Also they promised to open source Pocket in 2017, but seem to have zero intention of doing it. Instead, they prioritize controversial integration into the browser itself.
  - Nicksil 7y ago
    >Also they promised to open source Pocket in 2017, but seem to have zero intention of doing it. Zero intention of doing so or just have yet to do so? Did they say they were no longer considering the option?
    - pseudalopex 7y ago
      It's been 2 years. They have no specific plans to release the server code.[1] They won't say what's been done or has to be done. [1] https://github.com/Pocket/extension-save-to-pocket/issues/75 https://github.com/Pocket/extension-save-to-pocket/issues/75
      - TheRealPomax 7y ago
        On a software product note, "Pocket", the client-side product that does local-only interest analysis so it can get a full list of interesting articles from the server, and then locally filter out all the stuff you probably don't care about, is not "the server application that accepts volutary user submission analysis to determine what goes on the API response list with which categories". No one ever talked about open sourcing the service that the pocket client relies on, as far as I can remember.
        pseudalopex 7y ago
xtreak29 7y ago
Curious over what it does. This seems to be the meta bug tracking this : https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1535711 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1535711 . There are lot of linked issues and there is no clear description over this behavior. Can someone add in a link?
- jahlove 7y ago
  Someone teach Mozilla how to file a proper bug report.
epalm 7y ago
What the hell is "the best of Pocket's content"? I switched to FireFox to avoid stuff like this.
- Daniel_sk 7y ago
  It's a bit annoying if you don't need it, but can be hidden/disabled.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- m-p-3 7y ago
  Mozilla / Firefox owns Pocket.
  - veidr 7y ago
    You are literally correct, but that doesn't answer the question at all.
    - jhoechtl 7y ago
      Yeah, doing that last mile in your head is left as an excersise to the reader.
  - brnt 7y ago
    Question is: why is it still 'marketed' seperately?
    - mkr-hn 7y ago
      It still has extensions and apps for every major browser and platform. They want more people to use it and buy premium subscriptions to support Mozilla and make them less dependent on search engine revenue.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  It's a low impact way to support Firefox.
afturner 7y ago
about:config; search pocket; delete api keys, disable stuff, be happy
- michaelanckaert 7y ago
  Thanks for the tip!
stefan_ 7y ago
Oh my god they are still going with this Pocket thing. Firefox is a perfect example of the paradox of plenty.
anewguy9000 7y ago
the new tab page is the first thing i replace after installing ublock origin: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-CA/firefox/addon/yet-another-speed-dial/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-CA/firefox/addon/yet-another-s...
- vezycash 7y ago
  You can achieve the same effect without installing any addon. Visit about:preferences#home Uncheck everything except Top sites.
  - anewguy9000 7y ago
    the speed dial extension can do screenshots for thumbnails. and if you care about aesthetics at all it looks much nicer :)
gnud 7y ago
It _really_ bugs me that pocket isn't packaged as a pre-installed extension, that you can uninstall normally.
- rosybox 7y ago
  I have pocket disabled and I don't see any pocket stuff in Firefox.
- GordonS 7y ago
  I'm in the same boat - I like Pocket, but I don't think it should be built-in to Firefox. I don't see the issue with making it an extension/plugin.
- Bokanovsky 7y ago
  I'd up vote you more than once if I could. Originally when Firefox was released it was the antidote to browser forced add ons that were common at the time. I have vague recollections of Netscape Navigator having whole sections of what was essentially ads forced in the browser menu. I don't like Pocket being built in, as it should be a browser add on. It also sets precedence. It starts the chain of thought - "Well Firefox has Pocket, so lets add backed in thing X too". I wish it wasn't baked it as it goes against the whole of Firefox's original philosophy of being light weight and everything else an add on.
- sellingwebsite 7y ago
  But you can disable it quite easily: about:config -> extensions.pocket.enabled: false
  - thiagomgd 7y ago
    that's not 'easy' for most people.
  - nyolfen 7y ago
    i would find it very surprising if more than 2 or 3% of firefox users have ever used about:config at all
addicted 7y ago
It's completely optional. I've had this for a long time, so I don't know why it's being presented as a new option. I do think Mozilla managed the Pocket acquisition poorly (relative to the standards I would expect Mozilla to hold itself to...other companies do far worse without being criticized, but that's irrelevant...I used Firefox when it sucked because of the greater trust I placed in Mozilla) but since then they've done a decent job, considering it's their version of the read it later features every other browser has.
alinspired 7y ago
disable in about:config: extensions.pocket.enabled -> false

For our users in the US or using the en-US browser, we are shipping a new “New Tab” page experience that connects you to the best of Pocket’s content. Uhmmm...

by kuu 7y ago

For our users in the US or using the en-US browser, we are shipping a new “New Tab” page experience that connects you to the best of Pocket’s content. Uhmmm...

pornel 7y ago

I don't see anyone complaining that Safari has a built-in Reader feature. Safari even has "Siri Suggestions" almost identical to this Firefox experiment. Pocket has been acquired by Mozilla, so it's not a 3rd party feature any more. It's really no different. It seems that some people are just used to hating Pocket as if it was some kind of tradition.

Operyl 7y ago
People are mostly hating the advertising on the New Page from Pocket, not Pocket itself these days. EDIT: Here's a screenshot of the feature specifically that people dislike these days: https://imgur.com/a/p2rD4AY https://imgur.com/a/p2rD4AY While it can be disabled, it can be said that people are a bit annoyed that the browser that is "Privacy Focused" is shoving ads down your throat. While we as technical users can figure out how to disable it easily (in the preferences), the less technically inclined might not know that they can be disabled.
- gfodor 7y ago
  Advertising, tracking, and privacy are three separate concerns. We conflate them due to the way current advertising networks work: they track you, storing + analyzing the data in centralized servers (which violates your privacy), to deliver ads. You can deliver ads without tracking (for example, contextually based upon the page you are looking at, without any storage of that information or historical state.) And you can track users without violating their privacy (by not sending the data to a remote server and only analyzing it locally.) So in general, it's certainly possible to be able to preserve a user's privacy while also be monetizing your product through advertising. Now of course, most people dislike ads, which is a separate issue. But advertising is not inherently a violation of privacy, at least if you see privacy through the lens of surveillance by a third party. (You could stretch the definition of privacy to a point where seeing ads I suppose could be privacy violating, but I don't feel my privacy is being violated when I see a billboard on the highway, for example.)
  - namewasmypw 7y ago
    Advertising is an issue of user autonomy and a user's security in their autonomy. Users don't want to see ads. A browser that is supposed to be "for the users" shouldn't have its main screen be something that their users specifically do not want. For most of us, adware is a type of malware. For Mozilla, they have a tradeoff between user autonomy and cash flow. They can at least say that the bad things they do are because of the sacks of cash and not for any positive user "experience." Lying about it makes it worse, not better. Aside from ads, there is the issue that Firefox comes with backdoors (see Mr. Robot ad) and spyware (see telemetry that can't be opted out of.)
    - shabbyrobe 7y ago
      Which bits of telemetry can't be opted out of? I've set at least a hundred things in my about:config to tamp down on it but I'm never quite sure I've got all of them.
  - newshophours 7y ago
    I'm one of those "don't mind ads, do mind privacy intrusions" crowd. I'd be perfectly willing to turn off my adblocker for good if only advertisers would be willing to turn off their tracking and scripts and stick to only serving up JPEG banners. Alas, that's not likely. So I do what I can to use web services ethically - pay for services where possible (like Fastmail), whitelist when a site owner seems to be using ethical non-tracking ads, donate where appropriate (like open source developers looking for help with hosting fees).
  - ferzul 7y ago
    the data can be processed locally, but when my browser says, “get me the ad about debt relief”, it's leaking private info. that's why contextual ads are always better.
- slavik81 7y ago
  If you follow the "How it works" link, they state that everyone is sent the same set of ads. Your local browser chooses what to recommend from that set. I was happy to see they designed it in a privacy-conscious manner.
- addicted 7y ago
  It's a 1 click option to disable sponsored stories In the Settings>Home page, and on the desktop, the setting falls right in the middle of the screen, so it's not hidden away. And you can also use a single click to disable Pocket suggestions entirely. I honestly don't see any reason to complain there.
pseudalopex 7y ago
Mozilla killed a private Reading List feature and replaced it with Pocket. They carefully denied getting paid for the integration before eventually revealing that they got paid for new subscriptions. They promised to open source Pocket when they acquired it and still haven't. What Mozilla calls "the best of Pocket's content" is ads and articles that border on clickbait. Some people don't like marketing doublespeak.
- cambalache 7y ago
  Genuine question,so which option do you recommend for linux/windows
  - pseudalopex 7y ago
    You can turn off the ads and clickbait. I still like Firefox more than other browsers. I still trust Mozilla more than other companies. I just think people have legitimate complaints.

Someone1234 7y ago

Say what you will about Firefox, but they do make it super easy to disable this nonsense. - Options -> Home -> Firefox Home Content -> Uncheck everything I personally leave "Web Search" enabled, which gives a Chrome-like/minimalist experience.

Fnoord 7y ago
Good advice. I just figured this out on my own, and thought it was reasonably easy enough. (You can also fiddle in about:config or click on the hamburger menu in about:home) Switch to a privacy-friendly search engine like DuckDuckGo while you're at it.

rom1v 7y ago

Even on Android, I was confused by a list of spam "news" on the home page in Firefox 68.0.2. To disable it: Settings, General, Home, Top Sites, disable "Recommended by Pocket".

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

veidr 7y ago

I'm even OK with this feature, just not with the we're shipping a new “New Tab” page experience that connects you to the best of... drone-speak T_T

jchook 7y ago
Also they promised to open source Pocket in 2017, but seem to have zero intention of doing it. Instead, they prioritize controversial integration into the browser itself.
- Nicksil 7y ago
  >Also they promised to open source Pocket in 2017, but seem to have zero intention of doing it. Zero intention of doing so or just have yet to do so? Did they say they were no longer considering the option?
  - pseudalopex 7y ago
    It's been 2 years. They have no specific plans to release the server code.[1] They won't say what's been done or has to be done. [1] https://github.com/Pocket/extension-save-to-pocket/issues/75 https://github.com/Pocket/extension-save-to-pocket/issues/75
    - TheRealPomax 7y ago
      On a software product note, "Pocket", the client-side product that does local-only interest analysis so it can get a full list of interesting articles from the server, and then locally filter out all the stuff you probably don't care about, is not "the server application that accepts volutary user submission analysis to determine what goes on the API response list with which categories". No one ever talked about open sourcing the service that the pocket client relies on, as far as I can remember.
      - pseudalopex 7y ago

xtreak29 7y ago

Curious over what it does. This seems to be the meta bug tracking this : https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1535711 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1535711 . There are lot of linked issues and there is no clear description over this behavior. Can someone add in a link?

jahlove 7y ago
Someone teach Mozilla how to file a proper bug report.

epalm 7y ago

What the hell is "the best of Pocket's content"? I switched to FireFox to avoid stuff like this.

Daniel_sk 7y ago
It's a bit annoying if you don't need it, but can be hidden/disabled.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
m-p-3 7y ago
Mozilla / Firefox owns Pocket.
- veidr 7y ago
  You are literally correct, but that doesn't answer the question at all.
  - jhoechtl 7y ago
    Yeah, doing that last mile in your head is left as an excersise to the reader.
- brnt 7y ago
  Question is: why is it still 'marketed' seperately?
  - mkr-hn 7y ago
    It still has extensions and apps for every major browser and platform. They want more people to use it and buy premium subscriptions to support Mozilla and make them less dependent on search engine revenue.
kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
It's a low impact way to support Firefox.

afturner 7y ago

about:config; search pocket; delete api keys, disable stuff, be happy

michaelanckaert 7y ago
Thanks for the tip!

stefan_ 7y ago

Oh my god they are still going with this Pocket thing. Firefox is a perfect example of the paradox of plenty.

anewguy9000 7y ago

the new tab page is the first thing i replace after installing ublock origin: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-CA/firefox/addon/yet-another-speed-dial/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-CA/firefox/addon/yet-another-s...

vezycash 7y ago
You can achieve the same effect without installing any addon. Visit about:preferences#home Uncheck everything except Top sites.
- anewguy9000 7y ago
  the speed dial extension can do screenshots for thumbnails. and if you care about aesthetics at all it looks much nicer :)

gnud 7y ago

It _really_ bugs me that pocket isn't packaged as a pre-installed extension, that you can uninstall normally.

rosybox 7y ago
I have pocket disabled and I don't see any pocket stuff in Firefox.
GordonS 7y ago
I'm in the same boat - I like Pocket, but I don't think it should be built-in to Firefox. I don't see the issue with making it an extension/plugin.
Bokanovsky 7y ago
I'd up vote you more than once if I could. Originally when Firefox was released it was the antidote to browser forced add ons that were common at the time. I have vague recollections of Netscape Navigator having whole sections of what was essentially ads forced in the browser menu. I don't like Pocket being built in, as it should be a browser add on. It also sets precedence. It starts the chain of thought - "Well Firefox has Pocket, so lets add backed in thing X too". I wish it wasn't baked it as it goes against the whole of Firefox's original philosophy of being light weight and everything else an add on.
sellingwebsite 7y ago
But you can disable it quite easily: about:config -> extensions.pocket.enabled: false
- thiagomgd 7y ago
  that's not 'easy' for most people.
- nyolfen 7y ago
  i would find it very surprising if more than 2 or 3% of firefox users have ever used about:config at all

addicted 7y ago

It's completely optional. I've had this for a long time, so I don't know why it's being presented as a new option. I do think Mozilla managed the Pocket acquisition poorly (relative to the standards I would expect Mozilla to hold itself to...other companies do far worse without being criticized, but that's irrelevant...I used Firefox when it sucked because of the greater trust I placed in Mozilla) but since then they've done a decent job, considering it's their version of the read it later features every other browser has.

alinspired 7y ago

disable in about:config: extensions.pocket.enabled -> false