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That story reminds me, I once made my own ketchup. It's a lot of fun, but not very rewarding (see below). You'll find many different recipes on the net. I chos

That story reminds me, I once made my own ketchup. It's a lot of fun, but not very rewarding (see below). You'll find many different recipes on the net. I chose one of them that I considered most promising, assembled the definitely countless ingredients, then carefully peeled and boiled down the tomatoes, and so on. The whole process took me about two hours, maybe even longer. Before you add the vinegar, it tastes like a delicious Indian tomato sauce. The result after adding the vinegar tasted like the cheapest, generic no-name ketchup you could find. It wasn't particularly bad, just not nearly as good as Heinz. Whatever they put in their ketchup, it sure is some secret sauce.

MichaelMoser123 7y ago
It is easy to make tomato sauce without any ketchup (like in spaghetti with tomato sauce); To me it tastes much better than ketchup, but I wouldn't know how to preserve it for a week or longer. I mean ketchup kills all the ingredients but it doesn't turn into a tasteless mess; that's quite an achievement.
- volent 7y ago
  what
- alien1993 7y ago
  > It is easy to make tomato sauce without any ketchup What do you mean? Tomato sauce is not ketchup, it's a completely different thing. Is there people actually making tomato sauce with ketchup!?
  - markdown 7y ago
    > Tomato sauce is not ketchup, it's a completely different thing. Really? I've always assumed that ketchup is just what Americans call tomato sauce.
    - knodi 7y ago
      No.
    - SllX 7y ago
      Tomato jam would be better description, though that’s also a whole other condiment which is apparently pretty popular in South Africa. We don’t typically serve our pasta with ketchup[1]. [1] The Japanese however, might. https://www.japanesecooking101.com/spaghetti-neapolitan/ https://www.japanesecooking101.com/spaghetti-neapolitan/ I’ve tasted variants of this. It isn’t for me, but I never cared for ketchup.
      - 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
        Fun fact: Japanese Naporitan pasta (basically spaghetti with ketchup) originates from US military rations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naporitan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naporitan The Japanese can only blame themselves for the ketchup-flavored popsicles though: https://soranews24.com/2014/03/27/we-drink-japans-spaghetti-popsicle-seriously/ https://soranews24.com/2014/03/27/we-drink-japans-spaghetti-...
    - michaelt 7y ago
      Ketchup is a sauce with tomatoes in, but it generally includes vinegar, salt and quite a lot of sugar; tends to have a consistent, lump-free texture; it's applied to greasy food like fries and hamburgers; and only about one tablespoon would be used per meal. On the other hand, a pasta sauce would generally retain chunks of tomato, use less (or even no) vinegar, salt or sugar per unit volume; and it would be applied to non-greasy pasta in much larger volumes :)
      - markdown 7y ago
        > Ketchup is a sauce with tomatoes in, but it generally includes vinegar, salt and quite a lot of sugar; tends to have a consistent, lump-free texture; it's applied to greasy food like fries and hamburgers; and only about one tablespoon would be used per meal. What you've described is just called tomato sauce in my part of the world (Pacific Islands, Australia, New Zealand). So what we call tomato sauce, you call ketchup. EDIT: I found this https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/heinz-ketchup-australia-tomato-sauce https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/heinz-ketchup-australi...
  - dagw 7y ago
    Is there people actually making tomato sauce with ketchup!? I've seen several recipes for tomato based sauces that use ketchup as an ingredient if that's what you mean. But it's used a flavoring ingredient, not as the bulk of the sauce.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    > Tomato sauce is not ketchup Regionally, people where I live call ketchup 'tomato sauce', or sometimes 'red sauce'.
  - vixen99 7y ago
    Only one vital difference. Ketchup's tomato density is much greater that tomato sauce. In other words it's just a matter of intensity of flavor, thickness and consistency, all of which follow when the sauce is concentrated though it depends what flavor you want for either. No other magical characteristic required.
    - arrrg 7y ago
      Vinegar and sugar are the two other vital components of tomato ketchup, with vinegar probably being the more characteristic of the two. (Tomatoes are naturally somewhat sweet, so you are always going to have some sweetness in your tomato sauce as a flavor component.) Both are either used not at all in tomato sauce or used in much, much lower doses. (I actually have sometimes used very low doses of balsamic vinegar in my tomato sauces but it’s an atypical ingredient. Sometimes adding carrots, honey or just a bit of sugar is recommended if your tomatoes are particularly sour and lacking in sweetness but that’s more as a workaround to hide not so tasty tomatoes. I have also done that in the past but we are talking about adding a pinch of sugar or a drop of honey, not having sugar as the third entry on your ingredients list.) Obviously, the texture of ketchup is also very smooth while tomato sauce can have many different textures, from completely smooth like ketchup to with substantial vegetable chunks. Depending on how long you cook the sauce those chunks will also be more or less soft. Also, tomato sauce can and probably often is much less thick than tomato ketchup and tomato sauce often has quite a bit of added fat (typically butter or olive oil or both). Ketchup is also typically served cold and tomato sauce hot but that’s more like the default. Both can go either way. So, yeah, I would say there are a lot of substantial differences between tomato ketchup and tomato sauce beyond just how concentrated the tomatoes are. But maybe we are talking past each other and what you call “tomato sauce” is actually something else entirely.
Confusion 7y ago
Sometimes it just needs carefully sussing out the secret ingredient. My wife has been trying to make green curry for years, but it was never as good as the Thai stuff. Then she followed the advice of a professional chef to not replace the kaffir limes by just any limes and actually try to obtain kaffir limes (which are bitter and not useful except for their peel). Boom! Her green curry is now as good as any in Thailand. Just changing the limes made a world of difference.
- Fnoord 7y ago
  Did she attempt to dose cardamom? Did she use Thai basil? I'm not sure about the former in Thai cuisine, but the latter is highly recommended. As for ketchup, it simply isn't spicy enough for my taste. Which makes it "boring". There's a Dutch variant called "curry" which contains spices and umami, but more sugar and less tomatoes. Mayonnaise I desire with lemon, too (Belgian style). I like to make my own garlic sauce (Belgian mayonnaise, yogurt, cube-sliced garlic). Don't make it _too_ runny (too much yogurt). My fav sauce is green pepper sauce. It is similar to the garlic sauce as base, but with freshly grinded green pepper. I'll try a black pepper variant another time.
  - twic 7y ago
    Have you tried brown sauce? http://www.foodsofengland.co.uk/brownsauce.htm http://www.foodsofengland.co.uk/brownsauce.htm
    - Fnoord 7y ago
      Yes, I have! You may regard it as similar, but not quite the same. The thing with "curry" (Dutch one ie. the sauce, not the -real- Asian one) is that different brands are not quite the same. If you focus on it, you'll notice. I also find that the older I become, the less desire I have for sugar. I dislike if things are too sweet for my taste. Hence I no longer prefer (Dutch) curry as sauce, and also a reason why I love yogurt with mayonnaise as a simple basis for sauces. In that sense, German cream and German mayonnaise is also lovely as it contains far less sugar but has the same mouth feeling. In apfelstrudel mit Sahne, the cream compliments the sweet pastry.
gandalfian 7y ago
Sugar?
- k_ 7y ago
  I don't think so (well, not entirely so anyway). I had switched to "50% less sugar & salt" [0] some months ago, and more recently discovered the "no added sugar & salt" [1] version and use this one since then. Sure it's not exactly the same taste as "regular" heinz ketchup but I'd say it's close enough. [0]: https://www.heinz.co.uk/products/tomato_ketchup/products/heinz-tomato-ketchup-50-less-sugar-salt https://www.heinz.co.uk/products/tomato_ketchup/products/hei... [1]: https://www.heinz.co.uk/products/tomato_ketchup/products/tomato-ketchup-no-added-sugar-salt https://www.heinz.co.uk/products/tomato_ketchup/products/tom...
  - unwind 7y ago
    Uh, regarding your second link to the sugar-free version, how can Heinz claim it's using "No artificial colours, flavors, preservatives or thickeners" when the product is sweetened with Sucralose? Wikipedia's text about Sucralose [1] starts: Sucralose is an artificial sweetener and sugar substitute [...] Is "sweet" not considered a flavor, due to some marketing double-speak? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucralose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucralose
    - simiones 7y ago
      Technically, I guess "sweet" is a taste, i.e. felt on the tongue, whereas flavors are smells...
      - unwind 7y ago
        Perhaps (I'm not a native speaker) but that doesn't mesh with my understanding of the word. Wikipedia's entry on Flavor [1] says: A "flavorant" is defined as a substance that gives another substance flavor, altering the characteristics of the solute, causing it to become sweet, sour, tangy, etc. A flavor is a quality of something that affects the sense of taste. So they claim that "sweet" is a flavor, which to me makes it obvious that Sucralose, being a sweetener, is acting as flavoring. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavor
ljf 7y ago
I've never made from pure scratch like that - but a few times when we've been out of sauce I've made some with tomato paste, balsamic vinegar and sugar/salt - always tasted amazing. But creating my own paste would feel like a very long winded way of going about the process - esp if as you suggest it really isn't worth it.

MichaelMoser123 7y ago

It is easy to make tomato sauce without any ketchup (like in spaghetti with tomato sauce); To me it tastes much better than ketchup, but I wouldn't know how to preserve it for a week or longer. I mean ketchup kills all the ingredients but it doesn't turn into a tasteless mess; that's quite an achievement.

volent 7y ago
what
alien1993 7y ago
> It is easy to make tomato sauce without any ketchup What do you mean? Tomato sauce is not ketchup, it's a completely different thing. Is there people actually making tomato sauce with ketchup!?
- markdown 7y ago
  > Tomato sauce is not ketchup, it's a completely different thing. Really? I've always assumed that ketchup is just what Americans call tomato sauce.
  - knodi 7y ago
    No.
  - SllX 7y ago
    Tomato jam would be better description, though that’s also a whole other condiment which is apparently pretty popular in South Africa. We don’t typically serve our pasta with ketchup[1]. [1] The Japanese however, might. https://www.japanesecooking101.com/spaghetti-neapolitan/ https://www.japanesecooking101.com/spaghetti-neapolitan/ I’ve tasted variants of this. It isn’t for me, but I never cared for ketchup.
    - 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
      Fun fact: Japanese Naporitan pasta (basically spaghetti with ketchup) originates from US military rations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naporitan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naporitan The Japanese can only blame themselves for the ketchup-flavored popsicles though: https://soranews24.com/2014/03/27/we-drink-japans-spaghetti-popsicle-seriously/ https://soranews24.com/2014/03/27/we-drink-japans-spaghetti-...
  - michaelt 7y ago
    Ketchup is a sauce with tomatoes in, but it generally includes vinegar, salt and quite a lot of sugar; tends to have a consistent, lump-free texture; it's applied to greasy food like fries and hamburgers; and only about one tablespoon would be used per meal. On the other hand, a pasta sauce would generally retain chunks of tomato, use less (or even no) vinegar, salt or sugar per unit volume; and it would be applied to non-greasy pasta in much larger volumes :)
    - markdown 7y ago
      > Ketchup is a sauce with tomatoes in, but it generally includes vinegar, salt and quite a lot of sugar; tends to have a consistent, lump-free texture; it's applied to greasy food like fries and hamburgers; and only about one tablespoon would be used per meal. What you've described is just called tomato sauce in my part of the world (Pacific Islands, Australia, New Zealand). So what we call tomato sauce, you call ketchup. EDIT: I found this https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/heinz-ketchup-australia-tomato-sauce https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/heinz-ketchup-australi...
- dagw 7y ago
  Is there people actually making tomato sauce with ketchup!? I've seen several recipes for tomato based sauces that use ketchup as an ingredient if that's what you mean. But it's used a flavoring ingredient, not as the bulk of the sauce.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > Tomato sauce is not ketchup Regionally, people where I live call ketchup 'tomato sauce', or sometimes 'red sauce'.
- vixen99 7y ago
  Only one vital difference. Ketchup's tomato density is much greater that tomato sauce. In other words it's just a matter of intensity of flavor, thickness and consistency, all of which follow when the sauce is concentrated though it depends what flavor you want for either. No other magical characteristic required.
  - arrrg 7y ago
    Vinegar and sugar are the two other vital components of tomato ketchup, with vinegar probably being the more characteristic of the two. (Tomatoes are naturally somewhat sweet, so you are always going to have some sweetness in your tomato sauce as a flavor component.) Both are either used not at all in tomato sauce or used in much, much lower doses. (I actually have sometimes used very low doses of balsamic vinegar in my tomato sauces but it’s an atypical ingredient. Sometimes adding carrots, honey or just a bit of sugar is recommended if your tomatoes are particularly sour and lacking in sweetness but that’s more as a workaround to hide not so tasty tomatoes. I have also done that in the past but we are talking about adding a pinch of sugar or a drop of honey, not having sugar as the third entry on your ingredients list.) Obviously, the texture of ketchup is also very smooth while tomato sauce can have many different textures, from completely smooth like ketchup to with substantial vegetable chunks. Depending on how long you cook the sauce those chunks will also be more or less soft. Also, tomato sauce can and probably often is much less thick than tomato ketchup and tomato sauce often has quite a bit of added fat (typically butter or olive oil or both). Ketchup is also typically served cold and tomato sauce hot but that’s more like the default. Both can go either way. So, yeah, I would say there are a lot of substantial differences between tomato ketchup and tomato sauce beyond just how concentrated the tomatoes are. But maybe we are talking past each other and what you call “tomato sauce” is actually something else entirely.

Confusion 7y ago

Sometimes it just needs carefully sussing out the secret ingredient. My wife has been trying to make green curry for years, but it was never as good as the Thai stuff. Then she followed the advice of a professional chef to not replace the kaffir limes by just any limes and actually try to obtain kaffir limes (which are bitter and not useful except for their peel). Boom! Her green curry is now as good as any in Thailand. Just changing the limes made a world of difference.

Fnoord 7y ago
Did she attempt to dose cardamom? Did she use Thai basil? I'm not sure about the former in Thai cuisine, but the latter is highly recommended. As for ketchup, it simply isn't spicy enough for my taste. Which makes it "boring". There's a Dutch variant called "curry" which contains spices and umami, but more sugar and less tomatoes. Mayonnaise I desire with lemon, too (Belgian style). I like to make my own garlic sauce (Belgian mayonnaise, yogurt, cube-sliced garlic). Don't make it _too_ runny (too much yogurt). My fav sauce is green pepper sauce. It is similar to the garlic sauce as base, but with freshly grinded green pepper. I'll try a black pepper variant another time.
- twic 7y ago
  Have you tried brown sauce? http://www.foodsofengland.co.uk/brownsauce.htm http://www.foodsofengland.co.uk/brownsauce.htm
  - Fnoord 7y ago
    Yes, I have! You may regard it as similar, but not quite the same. The thing with "curry" (Dutch one ie. the sauce, not the -real- Asian one) is that different brands are not quite the same. If you focus on it, you'll notice. I also find that the older I become, the less desire I have for sugar. I dislike if things are too sweet for my taste. Hence I no longer prefer (Dutch) curry as sauce, and also a reason why I love yogurt with mayonnaise as a simple basis for sauces. In that sense, German cream and German mayonnaise is also lovely as it contains far less sugar but has the same mouth feeling. In apfelstrudel mit Sahne, the cream compliments the sweet pastry.

gandalfian 7y ago

Sugar?

k_ 7y ago
I don't think so (well, not entirely so anyway). I had switched to "50% less sugar & salt" [0] some months ago, and more recently discovered the "no added sugar & salt" [1] version and use this one since then. Sure it's not exactly the same taste as "regular" heinz ketchup but I'd say it's close enough. [0]: https://www.heinz.co.uk/products/tomato_ketchup/products/heinz-tomato-ketchup-50-less-sugar-salt https://www.heinz.co.uk/products/tomato_ketchup/products/hei... [1]: https://www.heinz.co.uk/products/tomato_ketchup/products/tomato-ketchup-no-added-sugar-salt https://www.heinz.co.uk/products/tomato_ketchup/products/tom...
- unwind 7y ago
  Uh, regarding your second link to the sugar-free version, how can Heinz claim it's using "No artificial colours, flavors, preservatives or thickeners" when the product is sweetened with Sucralose? Wikipedia's text about Sucralose [1] starts: Sucralose is an artificial sweetener and sugar substitute [...] Is "sweet" not considered a flavor, due to some marketing double-speak? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucralose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucralose
  - simiones 7y ago
    Technically, I guess "sweet" is a taste, i.e. felt on the tongue, whereas flavors are smells...
    - unwind 7y ago
      Perhaps (I'm not a native speaker) but that doesn't mesh with my understanding of the word. Wikipedia's entry on Flavor [1] says: A "flavorant" is defined as a substance that gives another substance flavor, altering the characteristics of the solute, causing it to become sweet, sour, tangy, etc. A flavor is a quality of something that affects the sense of taste. So they claim that "sweet" is a flavor, which to me makes it obvious that Sucralose, being a sweetener, is acting as flavoring. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavor

ljf 7y ago

I've never made from pure scratch like that - but a few times when we've been out of sauce I've made some with tomato paste, balsamic vinegar and sugar/salt - always tasted amazing. But creating my own paste would feel like a very long winded way of going about the process - esp if as you suggest it really isn't worth it.