3 ms·

We are all full of fears, except those who are blind to the inevitable consequences of their disconsidered acts against nature.

by hirako2000 7y ago

onion2k 7y ago
People are rarely actually blind to the consequences of their actions. Most people know exactly what they're doing, especially if they're not working alone. If someone is doing something you believe is bad it's because they have prioritised something else (usually, but not always, personal gain).
- cm2187 7y ago
  Not just personal gain. The benefits of industrialisation and capitalism have been tremendous for people’s quality of life, stability of their food supply, access to medicine, work hours, work conditions. If it has an impact on the climate it is regrettable and should be mitigated as possible, but it is still a major net positive.
  - onion2k 7y ago
    The benefits of industrialisation and capitalism have been tremendous for people’s quality of life, stability of their food supply, access to medicine, work hours, work conditions. While it's true that workers have better and easier lives now than they have had in the past, I don't believe many early entrepreneurs pushed for industrialization for the societal benefits. They did it because those changes made them massive great piles of cash. If your workers are healthier, better educated, and don't hate going to work so much the business benefits far more than the workers do individually. Better conditions, health, etc are a side effect of industrialization. They were never the goal. When you see HR making out something is a benefit for the workers you can be fairly sure the management bought in because it will also improve the bottom line in some measurable way.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      I've noticed this is a general bait-and-switch our civilization makes about the economy, to which we're all exposed since childhood. As a kid you're led to believe that various careers have value because of nice benefits to society they create. Maybe you wanted to become a pilot, because you read that pilots fly planes that carry people and passengers to the places they need to be, and those pilots get to enjoy being up there with the birds and all. Then you become a pilot, and you learn that it was all a lie. The airline doesn't care about people or freight, they care about numbers in a spreadsheet, and it just so happens they fly planes to make those numbers grow. As a pilot, you're not enjoying freedom of flying and being with the birds, you're operating a semi-automated machine according to a checklist, and do what the airline tells you to do so that their numbers go up. People? Freight? Them needing to be elsewhere? Nobody cares about that. One of the saddest discovery in my life was the realization that a similar thing is the case with all careers. Every thing that's valuable to people, once it gets scaled up and incorporated into the economy, suddenly loses all its meaning, and becomes driven primarily by considerations of profit. I'm not sure whether it's a good thing or bad thing. Maybe it's inevitable. But I do know that nobody told me as a kid that society uses money and markets as a proxy for decision making purposes, and we assume that making money is the best indicator that you're doing good through whatever it is that you're doing.
kmlx 7y ago
the only thing that really worries me is humanity going back to pre-modern technology levels, this time with full-on communism added for good measure, all in the name of climate protection. otherwise i find climate change to be something that prepares us for colonising other places: planets and climates change; 300 million years ago Venus was the place to be, today it's Earth, tomorrow it will be the outer planets, specifically their satellites. we weren't really aware of these changes, especially their magnitudes. climate change brought it all out. it's up to us to learn from it so that we can control it. especially for the moment when we will unshackle ourselves from this solar system. yes, i am extremely optimistic about the human race.
- pyrale 7y ago
  "It's up to us to learn from it so we can control it" We do control climate change. What we do not control today is our society and our ability to enact political choices that would change our course.
  - kmlx 7y ago
    > We do control climate change. Let me make this very clear: we do not control climate change.

We are all full of fears, except those who are blind to the inevitable consequences of their disconsidered acts against nature.

onion2k 7y ago

People are rarely actually blind to the consequences of their actions. Most people know exactly what they're doing, especially if they're not working alone. If someone is doing something you believe is bad it's because they have prioritised something else (usually, but not always, personal gain).

cm2187 7y ago
Not just personal gain. The benefits of industrialisation and capitalism have been tremendous for people’s quality of life, stability of their food supply, access to medicine, work hours, work conditions. If it has an impact on the climate it is regrettable and should be mitigated as possible, but it is still a major net positive.
- onion2k 7y ago
  The benefits of industrialisation and capitalism have been tremendous for people’s quality of life, stability of their food supply, access to medicine, work hours, work conditions. While it's true that workers have better and easier lives now than they have had in the past, I don't believe many early entrepreneurs pushed for industrialization for the societal benefits. They did it because those changes made them massive great piles of cash. If your workers are healthier, better educated, and don't hate going to work so much the business benefits far more than the workers do individually. Better conditions, health, etc are a side effect of industrialization. They were never the goal. When you see HR making out something is a benefit for the workers you can be fairly sure the management bought in because it will also improve the bottom line in some measurable way.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    I've noticed this is a general bait-and-switch our civilization makes about the economy, to which we're all exposed since childhood. As a kid you're led to believe that various careers have value because of nice benefits to society they create. Maybe you wanted to become a pilot, because you read that pilots fly planes that carry people and passengers to the places they need to be, and those pilots get to enjoy being up there with the birds and all. Then you become a pilot, and you learn that it was all a lie. The airline doesn't care about people or freight, they care about numbers in a spreadsheet, and it just so happens they fly planes to make those numbers grow. As a pilot, you're not enjoying freedom of flying and being with the birds, you're operating a semi-automated machine according to a checklist, and do what the airline tells you to do so that their numbers go up. People? Freight? Them needing to be elsewhere? Nobody cares about that. One of the saddest discovery in my life was the realization that a similar thing is the case with all careers. Every thing that's valuable to people, once it gets scaled up and incorporated into the economy, suddenly loses all its meaning, and becomes driven primarily by considerations of profit. I'm not sure whether it's a good thing or bad thing. Maybe it's inevitable. But I do know that nobody told me as a kid that society uses money and markets as a proxy for decision making purposes, and we assume that making money is the best indicator that you're doing good through whatever it is that you're doing.

kmlx 7y ago

the only thing that really worries me is humanity going back to pre-modern technology levels, this time with full-on communism added for good measure, all in the name of climate protection. otherwise i find climate change to be something that prepares us for colonising other places: planets and climates change; 300 million years ago Venus was the place to be, today it's Earth, tomorrow it will be the outer planets, specifically their satellites. we weren't really aware of these changes, especially their magnitudes. climate change brought it all out. it's up to us to learn from it so that we can control it. especially for the moment when we will unshackle ourselves from this solar system. yes, i am extremely optimistic about the human race.

pyrale 7y ago
"It's up to us to learn from it so we can control it" We do control climate change. What we do not control today is our society and our ability to enact political choices that would change our course.
- kmlx 7y ago
  > We do control climate change. Let me make this very clear: we do not control climate change.