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And who says Linux isn't ready for the Desktop? Seriously, though, you folks put up with _a lot_ of crap like this (the jokes and the endless system configurat

And who says Linux isn't ready for the Desktop? Seriously, though, you folks put up with _a lot_ of crap like this (the jokes and the endless system configuration tweaking)

sunaurus 7y ago
That's funny, I only feel like I'm putting up with "_a lot_ of crap" when I'm working on a system where I'm not able to tweak the configuration. I'm currently working on Mac OS, and the limitations when rebinding keyboard shortcuts for example are absolutely infuriating. Getting to log in on my home Arch Linux desktop is so relaxing every day after work - if something doesn't work the way I want it to work, I can just fix it myself.
- laumars 7y ago
  Likewise here. OS X user at work. I don't mind OS X but it's one of those platforms where you just have to learn to love many of the decisions made on your behalf. Whereas when I switching to Arch everything works how chose it to. The thing with Arch is it is a bit of a pain to install compared to basically every other OS. Needlessly painful in my personal opinion but I'm not going to argue against the hard work the maintainers put in. However the beauty of Arch is once it's running it will last for years with very little effort. It's funny you mention keyboard bindings though, I've spent so much time trying to get keyboard bindings right on OS X and it's still not right. I wish OS X had an option to toggle between Mac and IBM bindings. I get the command key is useful on occasions but Apple really are the odd one out these days and it's a pain switching between Macs and PCs because of it.
- antigirl 7y ago
  so keyboard binding vs spendings weeks trying to get drivers to work on your machine properly ?
  - Insanity 7y ago
    Have you used Linux recently? In the past 5+ years I've not had to install a single driver _except_ one nvidia driver on one of the machines I wanted to game on. And that was not necessary except for gaming. Lately, it's just pretty much "install Debian from .ISO" -> done.
    - beatgammit 7y ago
      I've been using Arch with Nvidia, and it took ~2hrs my first time installing Arch and ~30min my most recent time (different machines), and once it's installed, I only mess with it if I need some software package, and that's usually just pacman -S package. By the time I've installed everything I want, I bet I've spent less time getting Arch set up than the Windows install that comes with my computer (tracking down software on Windows sucks, on Arch pacman gets it done quickly). If you're using Nvidia, most distributions (except Free Software zealots like Debian and Fedora) include their proprietary driver in the repositories, and honestly nouveau is quite good for most things. If you have the choice, go for AMD cards and they'll work much better out of the box.
  - lunchables 7y ago
    I haven't had any real driver issues in years and I run linux on all my machines. The closest is installing (via package manager) nvidia drivers for some machines, which takes all of about 30 seconds and a reboot. It's really luck of the draw, you may get a machine that has a device without good driver support, but it seems increasingly rare. Some ThinkPads now officially support Linux and Dell has been producing the XPS 13 Developer Edition for years which ships with linux and is supported by Dell.
- IggleSniggle 7y ago
  There’s always a way, although the most convenient are third party. After all, it’s a 'nix! Recommend Karabiner for keyboard specifically, or BetterTouchTool for all of your inputs / Window management. “Contexts” to replace Spotlight, and Shortcat for mouse-less GUI control.
f4stjack 7y ago
Eh... no, we really don't. At least I really don't. For me Manjaro runs out of the box flawlessly with no config wizardry - except font changing (because I like Lato more than Noto Sans) and scaling down the resolution from 3000 to 1920x1080. The rest is fine as it is. I used to do bumblebee shenanigans but nowadays I don't do gaming on the mobile. But these are personal tweaks, the machines run happy as they are post-install without any meddling. Steam runs happy, proton is running a lot of games without any problem. So it _is_ ready for the Desktop for some of us.
SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
Arch folks certainly do, but I presume they know what they're getting into and enjoy working out how things work. It hasn't been like this for the vast majority of Ubuntu and Fedora folks for a long time now.
- beatgammit 7y ago
  There really isn't much to put up with/configure on Arch. Once you've done the install a couple of times, it'll take 20-30 minutes to go from live CD to graphical boot with hardware acceleration, provided internet is decent. If you use a bigger desktop environment, things should work just the same as on the bigger distributions. Arch really isn't that complicated, and the documentation is fantastic. I've been trying to switch to openSUSE (want one distribution everywhere), and I've had more trouble than in Arch, and not much trouble at that. Linux in general is pretty trouble-free these days if you have decent hardware. Most of the people who have trouble on Linux are trying to use some crappy laptop with really low quality WiFi or something. The nicer your hardware is, the better Linux will work on it. That being said, even crappy laptops seem to run Linux reasonably well these days.
PeCaN 7y ago
eh, it's kind of a set-it-up-and-forget-about it type of thing. i've used both Arch and FreeBSD on laptops and while I'm sure setting it up was a pain I haven't had to touch system configuration stuff for a while. though really i think for many people part of the appeal of Arch, FreeBSD, etc, IS the endless system configuration tweaking.

And who says Linux isn't ready for the Desktop? Seriously, though, you folks put up with _a lot_ of crap like this (the jokes and the endless system configuration tweaking)

sunaurus 7y ago

That's funny, I only feel like I'm putting up with "_a lot_ of crap" when I'm working on a system where I'm not able to tweak the configuration. I'm currently working on Mac OS, and the limitations when rebinding keyboard shortcuts for example are absolutely infuriating. Getting to log in on my home Arch Linux desktop is so relaxing every day after work - if something doesn't work the way I want it to work, I can just fix it myself.

laumars 7y ago
Likewise here. OS X user at work. I don't mind OS X but it's one of those platforms where you just have to learn to love many of the decisions made on your behalf. Whereas when I switching to Arch everything works how chose it to. The thing with Arch is it is a bit of a pain to install compared to basically every other OS. Needlessly painful in my personal opinion but I'm not going to argue against the hard work the maintainers put in. However the beauty of Arch is once it's running it will last for years with very little effort. It's funny you mention keyboard bindings though, I've spent so much time trying to get keyboard bindings right on OS X and it's still not right. I wish OS X had an option to toggle between Mac and IBM bindings. I get the command key is useful on occasions but Apple really are the odd one out these days and it's a pain switching between Macs and PCs because of it.
antigirl 7y ago
so keyboard binding vs spendings weeks trying to get drivers to work on your machine properly ?
- Insanity 7y ago
  Have you used Linux recently? In the past 5+ years I've not had to install a single driver _except_ one nvidia driver on one of the machines I wanted to game on. And that was not necessary except for gaming. Lately, it's just pretty much "install Debian from .ISO" -> done.
  - beatgammit 7y ago
    I've been using Arch with Nvidia, and it took ~2hrs my first time installing Arch and ~30min my most recent time (different machines), and once it's installed, I only mess with it if I need some software package, and that's usually just pacman -S package. By the time I've installed everything I want, I bet I've spent less time getting Arch set up than the Windows install that comes with my computer (tracking down software on Windows sucks, on Arch pacman gets it done quickly). If you're using Nvidia, most distributions (except Free Software zealots like Debian and Fedora) include their proprietary driver in the repositories, and honestly nouveau is quite good for most things. If you have the choice, go for AMD cards and they'll work much better out of the box.
- lunchables 7y ago
  I haven't had any real driver issues in years and I run linux on all my machines. The closest is installing (via package manager) nvidia drivers for some machines, which takes all of about 30 seconds and a reboot. It's really luck of the draw, you may get a machine that has a device without good driver support, but it seems increasingly rare. Some ThinkPads now officially support Linux and Dell has been producing the XPS 13 Developer Edition for years which ships with linux and is supported by Dell.
IggleSniggle 7y ago
There’s always a way, although the most convenient are third party. After all, it’s a 'nix! Recommend Karabiner for keyboard specifically, or BetterTouchTool for all of your inputs / Window management. “Contexts” to replace Spotlight, and Shortcat for mouse-less GUI control.

f4stjack 7y ago

Eh... no, we really don't. At least I really don't. For me Manjaro runs out of the box flawlessly with no config wizardry - except font changing (because I like Lato more than Noto Sans) and scaling down the resolution from 3000 to 1920x1080. The rest is fine as it is. I used to do bumblebee shenanigans but nowadays I don't do gaming on the mobile. But these are personal tweaks, the machines run happy as they are post-install without any meddling. Steam runs happy, proton is running a lot of games without any problem. So it _is_ ready for the Desktop for some of us.

SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago

Arch folks certainly do, but I presume they know what they're getting into and enjoy working out how things work. It hasn't been like this for the vast majority of Ubuntu and Fedora folks for a long time now.

beatgammit 7y ago
There really isn't much to put up with/configure on Arch. Once you've done the install a couple of times, it'll take 20-30 minutes to go from live CD to graphical boot with hardware acceleration, provided internet is decent. If you use a bigger desktop environment, things should work just the same as on the bigger distributions. Arch really isn't that complicated, and the documentation is fantastic. I've been trying to switch to openSUSE (want one distribution everywhere), and I've had more trouble than in Arch, and not much trouble at that. Linux in general is pretty trouble-free these days if you have decent hardware. Most of the people who have trouble on Linux are trying to use some crappy laptop with really low quality WiFi or something. The nicer your hardware is, the better Linux will work on it. That being said, even crappy laptops seem to run Linux reasonably well these days.

PeCaN 7y ago

eh, it's kind of a set-it-up-and-forget-about it type of thing. i've used both Arch and FreeBSD on laptops and while I'm sure setting it up was a pain I haven't had to touch system configuration stuff for a while. though really i think for many people part of the appeal of Arch, FreeBSD, etc, IS the endless system configuration tweaking.