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I believe that's the point. You need to download the APK or whatever IOS provides for developer packages. This means less tracking from the vendor (Google, Appl

I believe that's the point. You need to download the APK or whatever IOS provides for developer packages. This means less tracking from the vendor (Google, Apple)

Illniyar 7y ago
There is no way to install apps on ios outside the appstore.
- iancarroll 7y ago
  Xcode is able to dynamically generate a development provisioning profile, even if you do not have a (paid) developer account. So side-loading is definitely possible, in some respects.
  - Illniyar 7y ago
    You need to create a developer account, learn how to use xCode (not at all trivial), and even with all that you need to reinstall it every 7 days. Effectively sideloading does not exist. The fact that 0.001 percent of people who own an iPhone can, with great effort, sideload apps is irrelevant.
    - hesk 7y ago
      You don't need a developer account anymore to sideload apps on iOS.
      - elevenoh 7y ago
        But you still must reinstall every 7 days?
        hesk 7y ago
        Yes, that is still a thing.
  - newscracker 7y ago
    Unable to reply to Illniyar’s comment below. To add to those points on the difficulty (actually practical impossibility), you’d also need to have access to a Mac to do all those things every seven days. That’s a very big ask, along with the technical know how to use Xcode, for so many people in Hong Kong.
    - 3xblah 7y ago
      Does anyone know the reason(s) why Apple makes it impractical to sideload?
      - toxik 7y ago
        Side loading is a threat to Apples control over all iOS and similar AppStore devices. If I didn’t want to comply with the very far-reaching requirements for e g in-app stores, I could just ask my users to side load my app. If for example Audible did this, it’d be a real threat.
        Illniyar 7y ago
        Chief among this is the requirement that all in-app purchases have a 30% tax by apple. Which is why you can't buy books in the kindle ios app[0] among others. [0]https://www.techspot.com/article/1597-how-to-buy-kindle-book-iphone-ipad/ https://www.techspot.com/article/1597-how-to-buy-kindle-book...
        toxik 7y ago
        Still waiting on regulators to slap Apple for that obvious anticompetitive behavior.
- iaml 7y ago
  I'm not 100% sure because I didn't use it, but cydia impactor might work.
cwyers 7y ago
1) It doesn't seem to be a principled decision to stay out of the App Store on the part of Serval's author, who says "trying to get the app approved for release on the Apple App Store. But that will be an adventure for another day." https://servalpaul.blogspot.com/2018/11/serval-chat-ios-port-finally-emerges.html https://servalpaul.blogspot.com/2018/11/serval-chat-ios-port... 2) This wasn't planned out months in advance. This is a protest that is organically sprouting up. Nobody wants to add jailbreaking or xCode to the onboarding process for people to join a protest movement. 3) I think worrying about Apple tracking what apps you install is the least of anyone's problems there at the moment.
- kilburn 7y ago
  3) I think the worry is China forcing Apple to produce this info (list of HK users with said app installed), not what Apple themselves would do with it. Maybe not a dealbreaker, but something to consider...
  - cwyers 7y ago
    I think China getting that information from Apple is sort of a second-order concern at this point. In a more stable situation, yeah, you don't want the police to have a reason to knock on your door. When you're gearing up to go protest in public and the cops are dropping tear gas on everybody, those sorts of lists are less important. Not saying that it doesn't matter, but there is no such thing as absolute security, it's a series of tradeoffs.
    - phs318u 7y ago
      Keep in mind that Apple's iCloud services in China are not actually provided by Apple. They are provided by Cloud Big Data Industrial Development Co., Ltd., and allows Apple to, "continue to improve iCloud services in China mainland and comply with Chinese regulations". [0] This service even has different terms of service, than the standard iCloud offering (though I haven't done a diff to see what's changed). The effect of this is that the encryption keys for the service for Chinese users, are in the hands of a state-owned company (not Apple). I'm a big support of Apple's approach and ethics with respect to privacy generally, however if you're in China, or a citizen of China, then it's probably safe to assume that anything on or passing through iCloud, is fully accessible to the state, without requiring Apple's involvement (e.g. via subpoena). [0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351
andrerm 7y ago
Google knows and logs forever every app you start on your device doesn't matter if installed from Google Play or not.

I believe that's the point. You need to download the APK or whatever IOS provides for developer packages. This means less tracking from the vendor (Google, Apple)

Illniyar 7y ago

There is no way to install apps on ios outside the appstore.

iancarroll 7y ago
Xcode is able to dynamically generate a development provisioning profile, even if you do not have a (paid) developer account. So side-loading is definitely possible, in some respects.
- Illniyar 7y ago
  You need to create a developer account, learn how to use xCode (not at all trivial), and even with all that you need to reinstall it every 7 days. Effectively sideloading does not exist. The fact that 0.001 percent of people who own an iPhone can, with great effort, sideload apps is irrelevant.
  - hesk 7y ago
    You don't need a developer account anymore to sideload apps on iOS.
    - elevenoh 7y ago
      But you still must reinstall every 7 days?
      - hesk 7y ago
        Yes, that is still a thing.
- newscracker 7y ago
  Unable to reply to Illniyar’s comment below. To add to those points on the difficulty (actually practical impossibility), you’d also need to have access to a Mac to do all those things every seven days. That’s a very big ask, along with the technical know how to use Xcode, for so many people in Hong Kong.
  - 3xblah 7y ago
    Does anyone know the reason(s) why Apple makes it impractical to sideload?
    - toxik 7y ago
      Side loading is a threat to Apples control over all iOS and similar AppStore devices. If I didn’t want to comply with the very far-reaching requirements for e g in-app stores, I could just ask my users to side load my app. If for example Audible did this, it’d be a real threat.
      - Illniyar 7y ago
        Chief among this is the requirement that all in-app purchases have a 30% tax by apple. Which is why you can't buy books in the kindle ios app[0] among others. [0]https://www.techspot.com/article/1597-how-to-buy-kindle-book-iphone-ipad/ https://www.techspot.com/article/1597-how-to-buy-kindle-book...
        toxik 7y ago
        Still waiting on regulators to slap Apple for that obvious anticompetitive behavior.
iaml 7y ago
I'm not 100% sure because I didn't use it, but cydia impactor might work.

cwyers 7y ago

1) It doesn't seem to be a principled decision to stay out of the App Store on the part of Serval's author, who says "trying to get the app approved for release on the Apple App Store. But that will be an adventure for another day." https://servalpaul.blogspot.com/2018/11/serval-chat-ios-port-finally-emerges.html https://servalpaul.blogspot.com/2018/11/serval-chat-ios-port... 2) This wasn't planned out months in advance. This is a protest that is organically sprouting up. Nobody wants to add jailbreaking or xCode to the onboarding process for people to join a protest movement. 3) I think worrying about Apple tracking what apps you install is the least of anyone's problems there at the moment.

kilburn 7y ago
3) I think the worry is China forcing Apple to produce this info (list of HK users with said app installed), not what Apple themselves would do with it. Maybe not a dealbreaker, but something to consider...
- cwyers 7y ago
  I think China getting that information from Apple is sort of a second-order concern at this point. In a more stable situation, yeah, you don't want the police to have a reason to knock on your door. When you're gearing up to go protest in public and the cops are dropping tear gas on everybody, those sorts of lists are less important. Not saying that it doesn't matter, but there is no such thing as absolute security, it's a series of tradeoffs.
  - phs318u 7y ago
    Keep in mind that Apple's iCloud services in China are not actually provided by Apple. They are provided by Cloud Big Data Industrial Development Co., Ltd., and allows Apple to, "continue to improve iCloud services in China mainland and comply with Chinese regulations". [0] This service even has different terms of service, than the standard iCloud offering (though I haven't done a diff to see what's changed). The effect of this is that the encryption keys for the service for Chinese users, are in the hands of a state-owned company (not Apple). I'm a big support of Apple's approach and ethics with respect to privacy generally, however if you're in China, or a citizen of China, then it's probably safe to assume that anything on or passing through iCloud, is fully accessible to the state, without requiring Apple's involvement (e.g. via subpoena). [0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351

andrerm 7y ago

Google knows and logs forever every app you start on your device doesn't matter if installed from Google Play or not.