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> I can’t understand how this news would surprise anyone I tried to tell my family about the Snowden leaks and the implications just a year ago. They are all u

by grecy 7y ago

> I can’t understand how this news would surprise anyone I tried to tell my family about the Snowden leaks and the implications just a year ago. They are all university educated people. They categorically did not believe that what I was saying was real, and when I showed them all the leaks they did not believe the content was true. Billions of people simply don't believe it's true.

lern_too_spel 7y ago
What did you think was in the leaks? In my experience, when people say their parents or friends didn't believe what they said was in the leaks, the parents and friends were usually right.
- arthurcolle 7y ago
  What does this comment even mean?
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    It means that people think the leaks say what Greenwald claimed they said instead of what they actually said, and when those people tell their parents what Greenwald said, they sound like lunatics. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20456352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20456352
    - coldtea 7y ago
      A, the BS "there's an added hop so it's not happening/serious" defense. People still fall for this?
      - lern_too_spel 7y ago
        The added hop means that the NSA can't request anything they want from the Internet messaging companies. They can only see foreigner data from the specific users the FBI has already wiretapped via court order. There are no leaked documents that say otherwise and plenty of documents that corroborate my assertions. This is why it hasn't been ruled illegal. Do people actually believe that phone metadata collection is illegal but the crazy thing Greenwald misread PRISM to be is not? That's going to trip grecy's university-educated family's bullshit detector.
- dondada 7y ago
  That the NSA and GCHQ were illegally collecting phone records and internet browsing details of anyone they wanted. The fact that the UK government recently passed a law[0] to make this legal makes it pretty clear that this is real. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/29/snoopers-charter-bill-becomes-law-extending-uk-state-surveillance https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/29/snoopers-chart...
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    How do you know what grecy told their parents?
- d3v0 7y ago
  I'm sorry but you are either implying that the leaks were fake or that 'parents and friends' are always right. In both cases I'll disagree heavily.
  - Vinnl 7y ago
    I think they're implying that the leaks often don't say what people think they say. (Not agreeing, just explaining.)
    - coldtea 7y ago
      How often does that happen?
- derpherpsson 7y ago
  Pro tip: Read the leaks. They are actual documents, that can be read. Try it!
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    That's what I did and what I suspect grecy did not do.
whatshisface 7y ago
You should show them the reactions of elected representatives to hearing about it. (I know of only a few clear verifications, if anyone more knowledgeable wants to chime in with a list that would be welcome.)
- rorykoehler 7y ago
  With deep fakes even that is up for dispute.
derpherpsson 7y ago
I know I should not post reaction-posts here. But this is Truly Horrifying in more than one way. Did they not even investigate your claim? Or did they just settle with labeling you a crackpot conspiracy theorist?
- Bombthecat 7y ago
  Same as climate change, no info is real... I'm not sure it is because we humans grow stupid or we grow so tired and sceptical that accept nothing what our own eyes see... While still billions of people believe in Allah, God or whatever without any evidence. I dont know how this can happen...
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >While still billions of people believe in Allah, God or whatever without any evidence. I dont know how this can happen... Isn't it obvious? In both cases people do the smart thing (which is not necessarily the "objectively correct" thing). Faith in Allah, God etc, is a good social glue, and is personally comforting, helping regulate emotions, etc. Similarly, not believing the Snowden story helps them fit with their social group (e.g. republicans), relaxes their mind from a whole lot of worries and concerns, helps re-enforce their personal beliefs (e.g. in good government), etc -- and most importantly, has no real disadvantage in their day to day life and work...
    - gargravarr 7y ago
      See also: Pascal's Wager[1] The leaks about mass-surveillance don't fit the criteria, as best I can tell. It's in their best interests not to, as you state. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager
      - derpherpsson 7y ago
        Pascal's wager suffer from the fact that it can be any of the myrriads of religions that are correct. The chance of picking the correct one is infinitely small (assuming there are aliens that also have religions). Only a subset of the religions have anything like hell/heaven, further diminishing the risk.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
Make them watch the movie. I find it gets the message across pretty well.

by grecy 7y ago

lern_too_spel 7y ago

What did you think was in the leaks? In my experience, when people say their parents or friends didn't believe what they said was in the leaks, the parents and friends were usually right.

arthurcolle 7y ago
What does this comment even mean?
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  It means that people think the leaks say what Greenwald claimed they said instead of what they actually said, and when those people tell their parents what Greenwald said, they sound like lunatics. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20456352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20456352
  - coldtea 7y ago
    A, the BS "there's an added hop so it's not happening/serious" defense. People still fall for this?
    - lern_too_spel 7y ago
      The added hop means that the NSA can't request anything they want from the Internet messaging companies. They can only see foreigner data from the specific users the FBI has already wiretapped via court order. There are no leaked documents that say otherwise and plenty of documents that corroborate my assertions. This is why it hasn't been ruled illegal. Do people actually believe that phone metadata collection is illegal but the crazy thing Greenwald misread PRISM to be is not? That's going to trip grecy's university-educated family's bullshit detector.
dondada 7y ago
That the NSA and GCHQ were illegally collecting phone records and internet browsing details of anyone they wanted. The fact that the UK government recently passed a law[0] to make this legal makes it pretty clear that this is real. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/29/snoopers-charter-bill-becomes-law-extending-uk-state-surveillance https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/29/snoopers-chart...
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  How do you know what grecy told their parents?
d3v0 7y ago
I'm sorry but you are either implying that the leaks were fake or that 'parents and friends' are always right. In both cases I'll disagree heavily.
- Vinnl 7y ago
  I think they're implying that the leaks often don't say what people think they say. (Not agreeing, just explaining.)
  - coldtea 7y ago
    How often does that happen?
derpherpsson 7y ago
Pro tip: Read the leaks. They are actual documents, that can be read. Try it!
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  That's what I did and what I suspect grecy did not do.

whatshisface 7y ago

You should show them the reactions of elected representatives to hearing about it. (I know of only a few clear verifications, if anyone more knowledgeable wants to chime in with a list that would be welcome.)

rorykoehler 7y ago
With deep fakes even that is up for dispute.

derpherpsson 7y ago

I know I should not post reaction-posts here. But this is Truly Horrifying in more than one way. Did they not even investigate your claim? Or did they just settle with labeling you a crackpot conspiracy theorist?

Bombthecat 7y ago
Same as climate change, no info is real... I'm not sure it is because we humans grow stupid or we grow so tired and sceptical that accept nothing what our own eyes see... While still billions of people believe in Allah, God or whatever without any evidence. I dont know how this can happen...
- coldtea 7y ago
  >While still billions of people believe in Allah, God or whatever without any evidence. I dont know how this can happen... Isn't it obvious? In both cases people do the smart thing (which is not necessarily the "objectively correct" thing). Faith in Allah, God etc, is a good social glue, and is personally comforting, helping regulate emotions, etc. Similarly, not believing the Snowden story helps them fit with their social group (e.g. republicans), relaxes their mind from a whole lot of worries and concerns, helps re-enforce their personal beliefs (e.g. in good government), etc -- and most importantly, has no real disadvantage in their day to day life and work...
  - gargravarr 7y ago
    See also: Pascal's Wager[1] The leaks about mass-surveillance don't fit the criteria, as best I can tell. It's in their best interests not to, as you state. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager
    - derpherpsson 7y ago
      Pascal's wager suffer from the fact that it can be any of the myrriads of religions that are correct. The chance of picking the correct one is infinitely small (assuming there are aliens that also have religions). Only a subset of the religions have anything like hell/heaven, further diminishing the risk.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago

Make them watch the movie. I find it gets the message across pretty well.