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* starting a startup got even cheaper Is that true in general, when you factor in the cost of a developer's time, now they can get paid a few mill instead from

* starting a startup got even cheaper Is that true in general, when you factor in the cost of a developer's time, now they can get paid a few mill instead from FAANG over those years each.

tosh 7y ago
Salaries might be up but you can get more done now with smaller teams (as in: only the founders). Some startups are possible now without technical co-founders that were not easily possible a few years ago. edit: I'd say there is way more competition (for talent & market/use-cases) though among startups as well as between startups and FAANG.
kweinber 7y ago
This is an excellent point. Since 90+% of those startup people will end up with peanuts or debt, nearly any other job would have put them way ahead... not just FAANG jobs. Startups are a rich person’s game....either from the VC perspective or the Zuckerbergs or Gates, etc etc who already have the nest egg and time to tough it out. I’ve seen a lot of harm come to young people who feel like they should risk it all to fit into a VC’s portfolio and driven like a slave while bearing the lion’s share of the risk.
- numismatex 7y ago
  Work is work. If young, or have a parachute, go for it. If, like me, needing a leg up, go for it too. Slave work that enables you to network and learn is valuable. Alternatives -- status quo engineering, or if in my boat -- shit jobs because I don't have a degree, certs or recent experience. When starting a business (I've helped start several), find a model that others use, and copy it. Go for broke, and take risks once you have the ability to. I've met far too many people unwilling to fund their business, goal or dream by copying models and learning by the example of others. Figuring others' models out is a skillset in and of itself.
- Old_Thrashbarg 7y ago
  Just from own experience, startups these days pay quite well. At my own startup, I just tell engineers I'll pay as much as their current company (excludes some of the salaries at the FAANG companies though) just that they will get much more equity that could become large. Strictly better expected value. Even so, very hard to recruit folks to early stage startups. I feel like there's much less appetite for risk these days. (Or perceived risk since we pay just as much so there's really not much on the line) I had one former colleague turn down my request because his current company gives great health insurance and 401k contributions. I was like "you are 22 years old! Take a tiny risk!"
  - solipsism 7y ago
    Or perceived risk since we pay just as much so there's really not much on the line I had one former colleague turn down my request because his current company gives great health insurance and 401k contributions. I was like "you are 22 years old! Take a tiny risk!" Don't you realize you've contradicted yourself here? Perhaps you've failed to consider that great health insurance and 401k plans are part of the total compensation package. If you're matching base salary but ignoring other benefits, you're not matching anything.
    - Old_Thrashbarg 7y ago
      > Don't you realize you've contradicted yourself here? I think "there's really not much on the line" and "take a tiny risk" are consistent. We have solid health insurance (not like the top plan), but no 401k contributions and therein lies the "risk" I refer to. This tweet comes to mind: https://twitter.com/downloadcue/status/1160254519592144896 https://twitter.com/downloadcue/status/1160254519592144896
      - solipsism 7y ago
        That tweet is downright cringey. It's incredibly myopic to tell people you don't know that they're wasting their time working at one company vs another. You basically need to think you know the meaning of life... everyone's, not just your own. Read the replies to get a dose of reality.
matahwoosh 7y ago
It's not as bad if you start your company outside of Bay Area or get remote employees.

* starting a startup got even cheaper Is that true in general, when you factor in the cost of a developer's time, now they can get paid a few mill instead from FAANG over those years each.

tosh 7y ago

Salaries might be up but you can get more done now with smaller teams (as in: only the founders). Some startups are possible now without technical co-founders that were not easily possible a few years ago. edit: I'd say there is way more competition (for talent & market/use-cases) though among startups as well as between startups and FAANG.

kweinber 7y ago

This is an excellent point. Since 90+% of those startup people will end up with peanuts or debt, nearly any other job would have put them way ahead... not just FAANG jobs. Startups are a rich person’s game....either from the VC perspective or the Zuckerbergs or Gates, etc etc who already have the nest egg and time to tough it out. I’ve seen a lot of harm come to young people who feel like they should risk it all to fit into a VC’s portfolio and driven like a slave while bearing the lion’s share of the risk.

numismatex 7y ago
Work is work. If young, or have a parachute, go for it. If, like me, needing a leg up, go for it too. Slave work that enables you to network and learn is valuable. Alternatives -- status quo engineering, or if in my boat -- shit jobs because I don't have a degree, certs or recent experience. When starting a business (I've helped start several), find a model that others use, and copy it. Go for broke, and take risks once you have the ability to. I've met far too many people unwilling to fund their business, goal or dream by copying models and learning by the example of others. Figuring others' models out is a skillset in and of itself.
Old_Thrashbarg 7y ago
Just from own experience, startups these days pay quite well. At my own startup, I just tell engineers I'll pay as much as their current company (excludes some of the salaries at the FAANG companies though) just that they will get much more equity that could become large. Strictly better expected value. Even so, very hard to recruit folks to early stage startups. I feel like there's much less appetite for risk these days. (Or perceived risk since we pay just as much so there's really not much on the line) I had one former colleague turn down my request because his current company gives great health insurance and 401k contributions. I was like "you are 22 years old! Take a tiny risk!"
- solipsism 7y ago
  Or perceived risk since we pay just as much so there's really not much on the line I had one former colleague turn down my request because his current company gives great health insurance and 401k contributions. I was like "you are 22 years old! Take a tiny risk!" Don't you realize you've contradicted yourself here? Perhaps you've failed to consider that great health insurance and 401k plans are part of the total compensation package. If you're matching base salary but ignoring other benefits, you're not matching anything.
  - Old_Thrashbarg 7y ago
    > Don't you realize you've contradicted yourself here? I think "there's really not much on the line" and "take a tiny risk" are consistent. We have solid health insurance (not like the top plan), but no 401k contributions and therein lies the "risk" I refer to. This tweet comes to mind: https://twitter.com/downloadcue/status/1160254519592144896 https://twitter.com/downloadcue/status/1160254519592144896
    - solipsism 7y ago
      That tweet is downright cringey. It's incredibly myopic to tell people you don't know that they're wasting their time working at one company vs another. You basically need to think you know the meaning of life... everyone's, not just your own. Read the replies to get a dose of reality.

matahwoosh 7y ago

It's not as bad if you start your company outside of Bay Area or get remote employees.