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If worst comes to worst, I hope there's satellite connectivity to HK. Or landlines not under Chinese jurisdiction. EDIT: To clarify, I'm concerned about what c

If worst comes to worst, I hope there's satellite connectivity to HK. Or landlines not under Chinese jurisdiction. EDIT: To clarify, I'm concerned about what could happen if China cuts HK off from the Internet.

dylz 7y ago
There is a decent amount of JP/SG connectivity, iirc.
busterarm 7y ago
Satellite phones are extremely easy to determine point of origin, give or take 20m. That's enough to dispatch police or worse, launch an airstrike.
- petre 7y ago
  That's exactly how Dzhokhar Dudayev was killed: using two laser guided missiles while he spoke on sat phone. The signal was interceped by a Russian reconaissance aircraft.
  - busterarm 7y ago
    This tactic has been used a number of times that I'm aware of, in Eastern Europe, South America and the Middle East.
    - klingonopera 7y ago
      ...and not just with satellite phones, a normal phone suffices. A drone will act as a receiver/relay for the phone signal, and then triangulate the phone's location.
    - anigbrowl 7y ago
      Surprising given how easily defeatable it is for anyone sufficiently motivated.
      - busterarm 7y ago
        The only "easily defeatable" method that I'm aware of is to make your call from somewhere you don't mind being bombed, make it from a place with multiple egress points, and to stay on the call for at most 90 seconds. Or put an optical repeater at your target (bombable) site and install a long run of fiber to your safe location, which you then have to abandon. Doesn't seem very practical to me.
        anigbrowl 7y ago
        Optical repeater? You're overthinking it. You don't need minimal latency or perfect signal quality to make voice calls worthwhile, crap quality is fine. And if you have to abandon a satellite phone because your comms station got blown up...so what? That's just a cost of doing business. They're maybe a couple thousand on the black market, probably the same or less than a MANPAD.
- dingo_bat 7y ago
  I doubt China is planning to airstrile individual protestor.
  - aramova 7y ago
    Like people doubted they'd run over a protester with a tank, right?
throwaway1997 7y ago
China can't cut HK off from the internet. Almost all Chinese internet traffic is routed through Hong Kong, not the other way around.
- rolph 7y ago
  so then HK could do...to china Hmm I think someone is in jeopardy but neither side has realized exactly who yet.
- a012 7y ago
  They still can cut off the consumers ISP and leave commercial untouched.
  - klingonopera 7y ago
    Let's take it a step further, and imagine a complete Internet blackout in HK, both consumer and commercial, even if just for a day or a week. I'm thinking up scenarios of how China can do a modern Tianamen and get away with it. I'd be happy to conclude that it isn't possible, but I'm not sure if I might be forgetting something...
    - rolph 7y ago
      forcing someone to obey you rather than just destroying them for defiance suggest you need them around for something. Im wondering just what a tyrant would have left to occupy thier time when all of the tyrannized are deceased.
    - anigbrowl 7y ago
      Satellite comms would still work. But you raise an important point, as it's a strategic issue in the region: https://www.asiasentinel.com/econ-business/taiwan-fears-china-cut-undersea-cables/ https://www.asiasentinel.com/econ-business/taiwan-fears-chin...
- fiblye 7y ago
  I don’t think China would care about cutting themselves off from the global internet.
sosoutre 7y ago
Seeing how well it’s working for Indoa in Kashmir, I”m surprised China hasn’t done it by now.
- klingonopera 7y ago
  Kashmir isn't as highly networked in the global world like HK is, which is probably why the Indian government can get away with it... it is a chilling lesson to any region that doesn't have the luxury of being a financial hub, which safeguards from sudden blackouts... https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/08/28/india-restore-kashmirs-internet-phones https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/08/28/india-restore-kashmirs-i... https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/internet-mobile-blackout-shuts-down-communication-with-kashmir/2019/08/06/346d5150-b7c4-11e9-8e83-4e6687e99814_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/internet-mobile-blackou... https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/pranavdixit/this-is-what-its-like-living-through-kashmirs https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/pranavdixit/this-is-wha...

dylz 7y ago

There is a decent amount of JP/SG connectivity, iirc.

busterarm 7y ago

Satellite phones are extremely easy to determine point of origin, give or take 20m. That's enough to dispatch police or worse, launch an airstrike.

petre 7y ago
That's exactly how Dzhokhar Dudayev was killed: using two laser guided missiles while he spoke on sat phone. The signal was interceped by a Russian reconaissance aircraft.
- busterarm 7y ago
  This tactic has been used a number of times that I'm aware of, in Eastern Europe, South America and the Middle East.
  - klingonopera 7y ago
    ...and not just with satellite phones, a normal phone suffices. A drone will act as a receiver/relay for the phone signal, and then triangulate the phone's location.
  - anigbrowl 7y ago
    Surprising given how easily defeatable it is for anyone sufficiently motivated.
    - busterarm 7y ago
      The only "easily defeatable" method that I'm aware of is to make your call from somewhere you don't mind being bombed, make it from a place with multiple egress points, and to stay on the call for at most 90 seconds. Or put an optical repeater at your target (bombable) site and install a long run of fiber to your safe location, which you then have to abandon. Doesn't seem very practical to me.
      - anigbrowl 7y ago
        Optical repeater? You're overthinking it. You don't need minimal latency or perfect signal quality to make voice calls worthwhile, crap quality is fine. And if you have to abandon a satellite phone because your comms station got blown up...so what? That's just a cost of doing business. They're maybe a couple thousand on the black market, probably the same or less than a MANPAD.
dingo_bat 7y ago
I doubt China is planning to airstrile individual protestor.
- aramova 7y ago
  Like people doubted they'd run over a protester with a tank, right?

throwaway1997 7y ago

China can't cut HK off from the internet. Almost all Chinese internet traffic is routed through Hong Kong, not the other way around.

rolph 7y ago
so then HK could do...to china Hmm I think someone is in jeopardy but neither side has realized exactly who yet.
a012 7y ago
They still can cut off the consumers ISP and leave commercial untouched.
- klingonopera 7y ago
  Let's take it a step further, and imagine a complete Internet blackout in HK, both consumer and commercial, even if just for a day or a week. I'm thinking up scenarios of how China can do a modern Tianamen and get away with it. I'd be happy to conclude that it isn't possible, but I'm not sure if I might be forgetting something...
  - rolph 7y ago
    forcing someone to obey you rather than just destroying them for defiance suggest you need them around for something. Im wondering just what a tyrant would have left to occupy thier time when all of the tyrannized are deceased.
  - anigbrowl 7y ago
    Satellite comms would still work. But you raise an important point, as it's a strategic issue in the region: https://www.asiasentinel.com/econ-business/taiwan-fears-china-cut-undersea-cables/ https://www.asiasentinel.com/econ-business/taiwan-fears-chin...
fiblye 7y ago
I don’t think China would care about cutting themselves off from the global internet.

sosoutre 7y ago

Seeing how well it’s working for Indoa in Kashmir, I”m surprised China hasn’t done it by now.

klingonopera 7y ago
Kashmir isn't as highly networked in the global world like HK is, which is probably why the Indian government can get away with it... it is a chilling lesson to any region that doesn't have the luxury of being a financial hub, which safeguards from sudden blackouts... https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/08/28/india-restore-kashmirs-internet-phones https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/08/28/india-restore-kashmirs-i... https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/internet-mobile-blackout-shuts-down-communication-with-kashmir/2019/08/06/346d5150-b7c4-11e9-8e83-4e6687e99814_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/internet-mobile-blackou... https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/pranavdixit/this-is-what-its-like-living-through-kashmirs https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/pranavdixit/this-is-wha...