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> lack of empathy I think this interpretation is colored by your own bias. Downvotes only show a lack of empathy if downvotes are a social mechanism to comment

> lack of empathy I think this interpretation is colored by your own bias. Downvotes only show a lack of empathy if downvotes are a social mechanism to comment on the asker, not the question. Particularly given that the SO guidelines explicitly say that downvotes are for the question, not the asker... I'm reminded of every stop sign I've ever stopped at in my life. Some asshole is always waving me ahead of them, even though the rules of the road say it is their turn. They probably think they are being considerate. But I don't think they are being considerate - I think they are making traffic flow less well, an inconsiderate act. Interpreting downvotes as a lack of empathy is the same sort of wrong reasoning as thinking that letting somebody go in front of you at a stop sign is considerate. It disregards the well documented and publicly posted rules for something you made up.

Avamander 7y ago
> Interpreting downvotes as a lack of empathy is the same sort of wrong reasoning as thinking that letting somebody go in front of you at a stop sign is considerate. It disregards the well documented and publicly posted rules for something you made up. Interpreting downvotes as a considerate act is like stabbing tires on someone's car who just had a light go out. Saying nothing because downvotes don't give any useful signal at all, they don't even know you stabbed because a light doesn't work. And seeing stabbed tires doesn't really give people seeing the car an useful signal either, only maybe a sense of being in danger.
- will4274 7y ago
  The signals aren't for the person who asked the question. Downvoting signals to other stack overflow users that this question probably doesn't contain the information they are looking for. When done correctly, this is considerate because it reduces the amount of time users spend searching for an answer. The goal of SO isn't to answer your question, it's to build up a massive high quality FAQ, and you should interpret the social cues in this context.
  - Avamander 7y ago
    > When done correctly, this is considerate because it reduces the amount of time users spend searching for an answer. But it isn't done correctly. It's done rather arbitrarily, because who could have predicted that accurate rating of questions is hard and that in the end what matters is having a quality knowledge base on various subjects not only the ones some specific people think are useful. I'd also not ignore that pretty much noone except the asker care about questions' votes when primary traffic to questions is from search engines. Oh, and I almost forgot, your claims of how downvotes are not meant as a signal for the asker, then why are they displayed the votes? Why should they lose rep if it's not meant as a signal to them?
    - will4274 7y ago
      Do you believe that downvoters have no empathy or that they have empathy, they are just bad at downvoting well because the problem is hard? Your comments seem to contradict on this point.
      - Avamander 7y ago
        Neither answer to your question is not entirely what I mean. Yes, the problem is hard, but the lack of understanding of the askers' side is a problem of people arguing against any changes to the system.
- lmm 7y ago
  Downvotes are a useful signal - they let you tell the difference between no-one looking at your question and you asking a bad question, which is huge. 99.9% of the time the alternative to a downvote isn't a thorough and considered explanation, it's no response at all.
  - DangitBobby 7y ago
    There is a "times viewed" counter at the top for questions.

Avamander 7y ago

> Interpreting downvotes as a lack of empathy is the same sort of wrong reasoning as thinking that letting somebody go in front of you at a stop sign is considerate. It disregards the well documented and publicly posted rules for something you made up. Interpreting downvotes as a considerate act is like stabbing tires on someone's car who just had a light go out. Saying nothing because downvotes don't give any useful signal at all, they don't even know you stabbed because a light doesn't work. And seeing stabbed tires doesn't really give people seeing the car an useful signal either, only maybe a sense of being in danger.

will4274 7y ago
The signals aren't for the person who asked the question. Downvoting signals to other stack overflow users that this question probably doesn't contain the information they are looking for. When done correctly, this is considerate because it reduces the amount of time users spend searching for an answer. The goal of SO isn't to answer your question, it's to build up a massive high quality FAQ, and you should interpret the social cues in this context.
- Avamander 7y ago
  > When done correctly, this is considerate because it reduces the amount of time users spend searching for an answer. But it isn't done correctly. It's done rather arbitrarily, because who could have predicted that accurate rating of questions is hard and that in the end what matters is having a quality knowledge base on various subjects not only the ones some specific people think are useful. I'd also not ignore that pretty much noone except the asker care about questions' votes when primary traffic to questions is from search engines. Oh, and I almost forgot, your claims of how downvotes are not meant as a signal for the asker, then why are they displayed the votes? Why should they lose rep if it's not meant as a signal to them?
  - will4274 7y ago
    Do you believe that downvoters have no empathy or that they have empathy, they are just bad at downvoting well because the problem is hard? Your comments seem to contradict on this point.
    - Avamander 7y ago
      Neither answer to your question is not entirely what I mean. Yes, the problem is hard, but the lack of understanding of the askers' side is a problem of people arguing against any changes to the system.
lmm 7y ago
Downvotes are a useful signal - they let you tell the difference between no-one looking at your question and you asking a bad question, which is huge. 99.9% of the time the alternative to a downvote isn't a thorough and considered explanation, it's no response at all.
- DangitBobby 7y ago
  There is a "times viewed" counter at the top for questions.