4 ms·

This was posted before and is just as silly as it was then. Being born rich _is_ success. Wealth and income, and derivations thereof are the primary metrics b

This was posted before and is just as silly as it was then. Being born rich _is_ success. Wealth and income, and derivations thereof are the primary metrics by which most societies define success. You don't have to agree on a personal level (I have issues with it), but the rest of the world continues onwards.

gridlockd 7y ago
You will have trouble finding anybody who would agree that being born rich equals success. Being born rich and then not blowing it is success. Families that have been wealthy over generations have figured out how to do this, while the "noveau riche" often fail after one or two generations. There's many stories of famous actors or musicians or lottery winners who went from rags to riches and then right back to rags.
- mlthoughts2018 7y ago
  It’s very hard to blow it if you’re born rich. Examples are over-represented in media since they usually involve celebrities & there’s a measure of savage entertainment in the general population, but these outcomes are exceedingly rare. If you’re rich (and in America if you’re also white or male) you just get chance after chance after chance, and you can do horrible things like manslaughter or sex crimes or large-scale fraud and never be penalized, or be penalized in a relatively minor way and bounce right back, usually with family money. Meanwhile if you’re not born rich, then even completely innocuous mistakes by your parents, like taking out a mortgage in the wrong place / wrong time, or having a sick family elder / child to pay for, can just instantly nuke your chances at college or adequate opportunities / networking that could enable entrepreneurship, etc.
  - gridlockd 7y ago
    > It’s very hard to blow it if you’re born rich. It's actually extremely easy to blow money on poor investments, and it happens all the time. People don't just get born with the skill to handle money well. Over multiple generations, there is no risk-free asset that will beat inflation, and inflation will easily eat up your wealth in that timespan, even if your family lives a modest lifestyle. Of course the matthew principle still applies, but that's besides my point here.
    - buqler 7y ago
      I think the point is that the ability to achieve success ought not be so skewed towards those whose ancestors achieved success, but rather towards individuals that have worked for it and have legitimate merit in society. If you’re suggesting that it’s easy to go from being rich to being poor, I think it would be useful to find data that examines how many people born rich become poor over time, and how many people born poor stay poor over time. Like, backing that claim up would make it more believable. Anecdotally, I don’t think it’s that hard for rich people to be born and then stay rich. Especially considering all the things that money can buy that helps one make even more money. Like a better education, for example.
      - gridlockd 7y ago
        > If you’re suggesting that it’s easy to go from being rich to being poor, I think it would be useful to find data that examines how many people born rich become poor over time, and how many people born poor stay poor over time. Like, backing that claim up would make it more believable. It's not easy to get data on the very rich. However, the top fifth of the population is about as likely to become poorer over time as the the bottom fifth is likely to get richer over time (page 6): https://www.pewtrusts.org/~/media/legacy/uploadedfiles/wwwpewtrustsorg/reports/economic_mobility/pursuingamericandreampdf.pdf https://www.pewtrusts.org/~/media/legacy/uploadedfiles/wwwpe... In total, only a minority (~40%) maintain their status over the course of a single generation.
        mlthoughts2018 7y ago
        You need something like decile transition probabilities, not merely directional changes. Going from the top decile of wealth to the second or third from top is not a significant loss of wealth. Even if “most rich people lost money” over their lifetimes, it would say nothing about how easy it is to go from rich to poor. How many people who are born into the top decile of wealth end up below the poverty line in total assets + income?
        gridlockd 7y ago

gridlockd 7y ago

You will have trouble finding anybody who would agree that being born rich equals success. Being born rich and then not blowing it is success. Families that have been wealthy over generations have figured out how to do this, while the "noveau riche" often fail after one or two generations. There's many stories of famous actors or musicians or lottery winners who went from rags to riches and then right back to rags.

mlthoughts2018 7y ago
It’s very hard to blow it if you’re born rich. Examples are over-represented in media since they usually involve celebrities & there’s a measure of savage entertainment in the general population, but these outcomes are exceedingly rare. If you’re rich (and in America if you’re also white or male) you just get chance after chance after chance, and you can do horrible things like manslaughter or sex crimes or large-scale fraud and never be penalized, or be penalized in a relatively minor way and bounce right back, usually with family money. Meanwhile if you’re not born rich, then even completely innocuous mistakes by your parents, like taking out a mortgage in the wrong place / wrong time, or having a sick family elder / child to pay for, can just instantly nuke your chances at college or adequate opportunities / networking that could enable entrepreneurship, etc.
- gridlockd 7y ago
  > It’s very hard to blow it if you’re born rich. It's actually extremely easy to blow money on poor investments, and it happens all the time. People don't just get born with the skill to handle money well. Over multiple generations, there is no risk-free asset that will beat inflation, and inflation will easily eat up your wealth in that timespan, even if your family lives a modest lifestyle. Of course the matthew principle still applies, but that's besides my point here.
  - buqler 7y ago
    I think the point is that the ability to achieve success ought not be so skewed towards those whose ancestors achieved success, but rather towards individuals that have worked for it and have legitimate merit in society. If you’re suggesting that it’s easy to go from being rich to being poor, I think it would be useful to find data that examines how many people born rich become poor over time, and how many people born poor stay poor over time. Like, backing that claim up would make it more believable. Anecdotally, I don’t think it’s that hard for rich people to be born and then stay rich. Especially considering all the things that money can buy that helps one make even more money. Like a better education, for example.
    - gridlockd 7y ago
      > If you’re suggesting that it’s easy to go from being rich to being poor, I think it would be useful to find data that examines how many people born rich become poor over time, and how many people born poor stay poor over time. Like, backing that claim up would make it more believable. It's not easy to get data on the very rich. However, the top fifth of the population is about as likely to become poorer over time as the the bottom fifth is likely to get richer over time (page 6): https://www.pewtrusts.org/~/media/legacy/uploadedfiles/wwwpewtrustsorg/reports/economic_mobility/pursuingamericandreampdf.pdf https://www.pewtrusts.org/~/media/legacy/uploadedfiles/wwwpe... In total, only a minority (~40%) maintain their status over the course of a single generation.
      - mlthoughts2018 7y ago
        You need something like decile transition probabilities, not merely directional changes. Going from the top decile of wealth to the second or third from top is not a significant loss of wealth. Even if “most rich people lost money” over their lifetimes, it would say nothing about how easy it is to go from rich to poor. How many people who are born into the top decile of wealth end up below the poverty line in total assets + income?
        gridlockd 7y ago