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The article explains that fasting is often prohibited by malnutrition and low body weight. Obviously fasting cannot be undertaken long-term, as it results in st

by gnode 7y ago

The article explains that fasting is often prohibited by malnutrition and low body weight. Obviously fasting cannot be undertaken long-term, as it results in starvation. I wonder whether there is any benefit to caloric restriction / fasting, versus maintenance calorie intake with a ketogenic diet. The crucial thing seems to be the elimination of insulin promoting carbohydrate, and depletion of glycogen which forces metabolism into ketogenesis, reduces growth factors, and promotes catabolism and autophagy.

AstralStorm 7y ago
Depends on what the goal is. If the goal is maximum speed weight loss, like say preparing for a competition, lower calorie easily wins. It has to be done carefully to not get dehydrated or remove micronutrients. And it's hard to get started for most as hunger is strong early on if you don't put additional protein in. Keto on the other hand is easier to get in with but relatively hard to maintain due to social factors. The diet is extremely different from any typical one in any country. On the other hand if you just have to limit calorie intake, things get easier to mix and match. But this one is sort of automatically playing on satiety which helps. Health results are somewhat of a tossup. Source: done the Kwaśniewski version of keto, and ad-lib vegan too (ineffective). Currently low calorie controlled, data driven, successfully so far at 0,75 kg/wk.
shadykiller 7y ago
There sure is according to Dr. Thomas Seyfried and Dominic D'Agostino - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28250801 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28250801
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  Yes, you can do both. Very carefully.
- abecedarius 7y ago
  Personal note: when a family member was recently diagnosed with cancer, the ketogenic diet was the one promising idea I found to supplement her standard treatment. It's... depressing... how my suggestion just to talk to her doctor about it probably wasn't followed even that far. Can anyone suggest a source to point to for non-nerds, such as a talk by a prestigious doctor? Considering the fate of my suggestion above, a paper or a book are not going to fly.
  - chiefgeek 7y ago
    There's a documentary called "The Science of Fasting" that I found very interesting. Apparently, they've been studying it for health benefits going back decades in the former USSR. https://www.amazon.com/Science-Fasting-Sylvie-Gilman/dp/B075824XCB https://www.amazon.com/Science-Fasting-Sylvie-Gilman/dp/B075...
    - jhncls 7y ago
      This documentary is also available at Youtube: https://youtu.be/t1b08X-GvRs https://youtu.be/t1b08X-GvRs
      - abecedarius 7y ago
        Thank you both.
- gnode 7y ago
  Could you elaborate? Without delving too deeply, that article seems to suggest the opposite: > The KD can more effectively reduce glucose and elevate blood ketone bodies than can CR alone making the KD potentially more therapeutic against tumors than CR

by gnode 7y ago

AstralStorm 7y ago

Depends on what the goal is. If the goal is maximum speed weight loss, like say preparing for a competition, lower calorie easily wins. It has to be done carefully to not get dehydrated or remove micronutrients. And it's hard to get started for most as hunger is strong early on if you don't put additional protein in. Keto on the other hand is easier to get in with but relatively hard to maintain due to social factors. The diet is extremely different from any typical one in any country. On the other hand if you just have to limit calorie intake, things get easier to mix and match. But this one is sort of automatically playing on satiety which helps. Health results are somewhat of a tossup. Source: done the Kwaśniewski version of keto, and ad-lib vegan too (ineffective). Currently low calorie controlled, data driven, successfully so far at 0,75 kg/wk.

shadykiller 7y ago

There sure is according to Dr. Thomas Seyfried and Dominic D'Agostino - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28250801 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28250801

AstralStorm 7y ago
Yes, you can do both. Very carefully.
abecedarius 7y ago
Personal note: when a family member was recently diagnosed with cancer, the ketogenic diet was the one promising idea I found to supplement her standard treatment. It's... depressing... how my suggestion just to talk to her doctor about it probably wasn't followed even that far. Can anyone suggest a source to point to for non-nerds, such as a talk by a prestigious doctor? Considering the fate of my suggestion above, a paper or a book are not going to fly.
- chiefgeek 7y ago
  There's a documentary called "The Science of Fasting" that I found very interesting. Apparently, they've been studying it for health benefits going back decades in the former USSR. https://www.amazon.com/Science-Fasting-Sylvie-Gilman/dp/B075824XCB https://www.amazon.com/Science-Fasting-Sylvie-Gilman/dp/B075...
  - jhncls 7y ago
    This documentary is also available at Youtube: https://youtu.be/t1b08X-GvRs https://youtu.be/t1b08X-GvRs
    - abecedarius 7y ago
      Thank you both.
gnode 7y ago
Could you elaborate? Without delving too deeply, that article seems to suggest the opposite: > The KD can more effectively reduce glucose and elevate blood ketone bodies than can CR alone making the KD potentially more therapeutic against tumors than CR