3 ms·

I didn’t see it mentioned in the study but it’s interesting that from what I know, the current clinical approach is the exact opposite - many patients on chemo

I didn’t see it mentioned in the study but it’s interesting that from what I know, the current clinical approach is the exact opposite - many patients on chemo are given appetite-inducing drugs and Ensure shakes as the oncologists are very concerned that the patient not lose any weight

ec109685 7y ago
They talk about that here: > However, patients with severe weight loss, sarcopenia, cachexia or malnutrition are probably not good candidates for a STF intervention [27, 28]. Recent guidelines recommend to increase protein and fat consumption in patients with cachexia [29, 30]. Thus, STF may be particularly useful for relatively fit patients treated with (neo)adjuvant chemotherapy.
johnpowell 7y ago
I just finished chemo eight months ago. I lost 35 pounds. I'm 6' and went from 140 pounds to 105. So yeah, my nutritionist gave me shit for putting water in my feeding tube because it doesn't have any calories. Ensure, juice, gatorade, anything was better than water. I had neck/mouth cancer and for about month I wasn't able to swallow anything (including water). I was doing about 3K calories of formula a day and still dropping weight. Everything hurt. My joints were a wreck and getting out of bed was a chore. I started doing 8oz of formula (TwoCal HN) and mixing that with 8oz of vitamin D milk. In a few days my joint pain went away. But yes, infusion rooms have little cafeterias and are stocked with soda, ice cream, juice, candy, and so on. Anything to get calories in people.
- waffle_ss 7y ago
  Thanks for sharing your personal experience and best of luck with your continued recovery. Hopefully I didn't come across as being critical of the doctors in my comment - clearly there are reasons to cram calories as your personal experience attests - I just find it an interesting juxtaposition.
edwhitesell 7y ago
I'm not sure abput appetite-inducing drugs, but depending on the type of chemo you're on you may get high doses of anti-nausea meds. I did. I still didn't want to eat, but I wasn't vomiting all the time. I did 4 rounds of chemo, one round is a week (5 days) on, 2 weeks off. During the third round the nausea was so bad that I ate a piece of toast and drank some water. That week. They try to get you to eat anything and everything so you have some strength. It's also a factor to flush the chemo drugs out of your body. Food and fluids help that too.
- waffle_ss 7y ago
  Thanks for sharing your experience. That sounds brutal and I hope you're on the mend now! I had heard on a podcast[1] about the Ensure thing quite awhile back, and I asked an MD acquaintance about it before I posted to make sure I wasn't about to post "fake news." The acquaintance is the one that then mentioned the appetite-inducing drugs. They're not an oncologist though so it's possible they're not up-to-speed on current practices, or more likely I misremembered their exact wording and they may have been referring to anti-nausea meds in the first place. [1]: I think it was the Peter Attia Drive podcast with guest Dr. Rhonda Patrick
  - edwhitesell 7y ago
    Brutal is a nice way of putting it. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I'm also fairly certain that I'd never do it again, but that's another story. Thanks for the kind words. My chemo ended about 2 years ago. I'm feeling pretty good now, other than the long-term/permanent side-effects. I wouldn't be surprised to know that some oncologists put patients on meds to induce/increase appitite. But, from what I know of the chemo drugs I studied, anti-nausea is pretty much a given. It may also be a factor for some who don't have much mass to lose and maintain a healthy weight. My oncologist kept up with me throughout the process and asked how I felt as it related to the weight-loss, red blood cell counts and all of those other blood tests. I probably could have gotten those meds too, if I asked. But, I was kinda against putting even more drugs in my body at that point.

ec109685 7y ago

They talk about that here: > However, patients with severe weight loss, sarcopenia, cachexia or malnutrition are probably not good candidates for a STF intervention [27, 28]. Recent guidelines recommend to increase protein and fat consumption in patients with cachexia [29, 30]. Thus, STF may be particularly useful for relatively fit patients treated with (neo)adjuvant chemotherapy.

johnpowell 7y ago

I just finished chemo eight months ago. I lost 35 pounds. I'm 6' and went from 140 pounds to 105. So yeah, my nutritionist gave me shit for putting water in my feeding tube because it doesn't have any calories. Ensure, juice, gatorade, anything was better than water. I had neck/mouth cancer and for about month I wasn't able to swallow anything (including water). I was doing about 3K calories of formula a day and still dropping weight. Everything hurt. My joints were a wreck and getting out of bed was a chore. I started doing 8oz of formula (TwoCal HN) and mixing that with 8oz of vitamin D milk. In a few days my joint pain went away. But yes, infusion rooms have little cafeterias and are stocked with soda, ice cream, juice, candy, and so on. Anything to get calories in people.

waffle_ss 7y ago
Thanks for sharing your personal experience and best of luck with your continued recovery. Hopefully I didn't come across as being critical of the doctors in my comment - clearly there are reasons to cram calories as your personal experience attests - I just find it an interesting juxtaposition.

edwhitesell 7y ago

I'm not sure abput appetite-inducing drugs, but depending on the type of chemo you're on you may get high doses of anti-nausea meds. I did. I still didn't want to eat, but I wasn't vomiting all the time. I did 4 rounds of chemo, one round is a week (5 days) on, 2 weeks off. During the third round the nausea was so bad that I ate a piece of toast and drank some water. That week. They try to get you to eat anything and everything so you have some strength. It's also a factor to flush the chemo drugs out of your body. Food and fluids help that too.

waffle_ss 7y ago
Thanks for sharing your experience. That sounds brutal and I hope you're on the mend now! I had heard on a podcast[1] about the Ensure thing quite awhile back, and I asked an MD acquaintance about it before I posted to make sure I wasn't about to post "fake news." The acquaintance is the one that then mentioned the appetite-inducing drugs. They're not an oncologist though so it's possible they're not up-to-speed on current practices, or more likely I misremembered their exact wording and they may have been referring to anti-nausea meds in the first place. [1]: I think it was the Peter Attia Drive podcast with guest Dr. Rhonda Patrick
- edwhitesell 7y ago
  Brutal is a nice way of putting it. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I'm also fairly certain that I'd never do it again, but that's another story. Thanks for the kind words. My chemo ended about 2 years ago. I'm feeling pretty good now, other than the long-term/permanent side-effects. I wouldn't be surprised to know that some oncologists put patients on meds to induce/increase appitite. But, from what I know of the chemo drugs I studied, anti-nausea is pretty much a given. It may also be a factor for some who don't have much mass to lose and maintain a healthy weight. My oncologist kept up with me throughout the process and asked how I felt as it related to the weight-loss, red blood cell counts and all of those other blood tests. I probably could have gotten those meds too, if I asked. But, I was kinda against putting even more drugs in my body at that point.