6 ms·

You cannot compare just engine torque numbers, without adjusting for gear ratios, wheel size and sprockets. As another commenter said, you rev a Ninja (just li

You cannot compare just engine torque numbers, without adjusting for gear ratios, wheel size and sprockets. As another commenter said, you rev a Ninja (just like a sports car) and launch it using the clutch.

hazeii 7y ago
I believe I did point out that on Ninja's (I have one) you need to build the revs; you can't just dump the clutch and go like you can on a BMW Boxer or a Harley (which I also have). Hence the Ninja is generally slowest away when the lights change (but is by far the quickest bike overall). In fact bicycles are fastest off the line, since they produce max. torque at 0rpm (just keep weight on a pedal, release the brakes to go). But acceleration is modest, so motorbikes and cars will soon go past. And of course electrically-driven vehicles are also capable of producing torque at 0rpm, hence their acceleration advantage.
- whamlastxmas 7y ago
  Try a ZX14 before lumping all Ninjas together :)
  - hazeii 7y ago
    Fair enough, though I tend to see the 'true' Ninja's as been the original GPz900, ZX9s, ZX10s and H2's. Of course, for touring there's now the H2 SX Ninja(!)
- darkerside 7y ago
  What they're saying is, you can rev up before dropping the clutch. That way you can get peak torque off the line.
- dpark 7y ago
  > In fact bicycles are fastest off the line, since they produce max. torque at 0rpm (just keep weight on a pedal, release the brakes to go). I doubt a bicycle would actually cross the starting line before a high end bike or car would surpass it. A 180lb rider would produce about 90lb of torque at most (assuming 6” crank) and that’s only for the instant that the crank is parallel with the ground. A high end car would deliver significantly more than 90lb of torque instantaneously by dumping the clutch (or using launch control).
  - msandford 7y ago
    You can produce torque in excess of your weight by using pedals that clip in and pedaling "circles" instead of "squares". When I was in good shape I figured I could produce torque much closer to my weight than half of it.
    - hazeii 7y ago
      Did you forget to figure in the crank length? 180lbs at 6" is 90 foot-lbs of torque.
    - dpark 7y ago
      The average rider probably cannot produce more torque than their weight that way. A quick search indicates that professional cycling sprinters can generate slightly over 100 ft-lb of torque. The average rider won’t be producing anything close to that. (Hard to find anything definitive, though.) If you aren’t standing up sprinting, you’re definitely not going to be getting anything close to your “body weight torque”.
  - hazeii 7y ago
    Yes, but the car has to accelerate around 20 times the mass. Bugatti Veyron is listed as having the highest torque [0] at 1,106lb/ft but then it weighs over 4,000 lbs. Plus there'd a delay for the engine to rev up to peak torque before the launch (i.e. it wont produce 1,100ft-lbs at idle). Be interesting to test, but I'm not too practiced at racing Veyron's off the line on my bicycle. Having said that, I am very used to riding bicycles and (large) motorbikes around town, and from waiting for lights to change if I'm on a bicycle I'm generally first away even when motorbike riders are getting competitive (never mind cars). The advantage of the bicycle is generally only a few feet, of course. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron
    - dpark 7y ago
      Race cars don’t launch at idle. If you’re racing cars that are idling when the light turns green, then you aren’t racing their engines. You’re racing the driver’s disinterested reaction time. The Veyron might weight 20x as much as you and your bike, but has over 300x the power output of the best sprinters in the world. Given equal reaction time and equal interest in racing, I am doubtful your cycling advantage would last for more than inches against a high end sports car.
- cullenking 7y ago
  I race an r6. There's no difference at all between a 600cc and a 1000cc bike off the line assuming a capable rider. When I launch, I can't keep the front wheel on the ground at full throttle, until about 70mph. Yes, if we are talking rolling on the throttle, not using any technique etc the big torquey twin will win Everytime. Once you are in third though displacement takes the lead, and my smaller engine bike is at a disadvantage!

hazeii 7y ago

I believe I did point out that on Ninja's (I have one) you need to build the revs; you can't just dump the clutch and go like you can on a BMW Boxer or a Harley (which I also have). Hence the Ninja is generally slowest away when the lights change (but is by far the quickest bike overall). In fact bicycles are fastest off the line, since they produce max. torque at 0rpm (just keep weight on a pedal, release the brakes to go). But acceleration is modest, so motorbikes and cars will soon go past. And of course electrically-driven vehicles are also capable of producing torque at 0rpm, hence their acceleration advantage.

whamlastxmas 7y ago
Try a ZX14 before lumping all Ninjas together :)
- hazeii 7y ago
  Fair enough, though I tend to see the 'true' Ninja's as been the original GPz900, ZX9s, ZX10s and H2's. Of course, for touring there's now the H2 SX Ninja(!)
darkerside 7y ago
What they're saying is, you can rev up before dropping the clutch. That way you can get peak torque off the line.
dpark 7y ago
> In fact bicycles are fastest off the line, since they produce max. torque at 0rpm (just keep weight on a pedal, release the brakes to go). I doubt a bicycle would actually cross the starting line before a high end bike or car would surpass it. A 180lb rider would produce about 90lb of torque at most (assuming 6” crank) and that’s only for the instant that the crank is parallel with the ground. A high end car would deliver significantly more than 90lb of torque instantaneously by dumping the clutch (or using launch control).
- msandford 7y ago
  You can produce torque in excess of your weight by using pedals that clip in and pedaling "circles" instead of "squares". When I was in good shape I figured I could produce torque much closer to my weight than half of it.
  - hazeii 7y ago
    Did you forget to figure in the crank length? 180lbs at 6" is 90 foot-lbs of torque.
  - dpark 7y ago
    The average rider probably cannot produce more torque than their weight that way. A quick search indicates that professional cycling sprinters can generate slightly over 100 ft-lb of torque. The average rider won’t be producing anything close to that. (Hard to find anything definitive, though.) If you aren’t standing up sprinting, you’re definitely not going to be getting anything close to your “body weight torque”.
- hazeii 7y ago
  Yes, but the car has to accelerate around 20 times the mass. Bugatti Veyron is listed as having the highest torque [0] at 1,106lb/ft but then it weighs over 4,000 lbs. Plus there'd a delay for the engine to rev up to peak torque before the launch (i.e. it wont produce 1,100ft-lbs at idle). Be interesting to test, but I'm not too practiced at racing Veyron's off the line on my bicycle. Having said that, I am very used to riding bicycles and (large) motorbikes around town, and from waiting for lights to change if I'm on a bicycle I'm generally first away even when motorbike riders are getting competitive (never mind cars). The advantage of the bicycle is generally only a few feet, of course. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron
  - dpark 7y ago
    Race cars don’t launch at idle. If you’re racing cars that are idling when the light turns green, then you aren’t racing their engines. You’re racing the driver’s disinterested reaction time. The Veyron might weight 20x as much as you and your bike, but has over 300x the power output of the best sprinters in the world. Given equal reaction time and equal interest in racing, I am doubtful your cycling advantage would last for more than inches against a high end sports car.
cullenking 7y ago
I race an r6. There's no difference at all between a 600cc and a 1000cc bike off the line assuming a capable rider. When I launch, I can't keep the front wheel on the ground at full throttle, until about 70mph. Yes, if we are talking rolling on the throttle, not using any technique etc the big torquey twin will win Everytime. Once you are in third though displacement takes the lead, and my smaller engine bike is at a disadvantage!