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An omniscient god can guide random processes as it wishes. Or it can create a system where the desired outcome will come to pass, without controlling every deta
by deogeo 7y ago
An omniscient god can guide random processes as it wishes. Or it can create a system where the desired outcome will come to pass, without controlling every detail. Like how each molecule of water moves randomly and unpredictably, but the river flows downhill and to the ocean.
- TeMPOraL 7y agoBut then if Occam's razor tells you the random process[0] will manage just fine, you have to push God's guidance further away still. At some point you might ask yourself, if increasingly sophisticated phenomena keep turning out to be explainable without any reference to God, if anything science touches turns out to be devoid of God, then why should we expect to find Him? -- [0] - an important realization is that evolution isn't a completely random process - it has state in form of environment and path dependence, both of which concentrate the probability mass.
- baud147258 7y ago> if anything science touches turns out to be devoid of God, then why should we expect to find Him I don't think science can be used to find any proof of the existence of God
- Intermernet 7y ago>I don't think science can be used to find any proof of the existence of God Can anything be used to provide any proof of the existence of God? If not, why continue to argue for the existence of God?
- lotsofpulp 7y agoIn this context, I use “random” to mean without the intent of a sentient being.
- deogeo 7y agoSure - but that's a far cry from 'contradiction'. And you overstate "explainable" - we are only able to explain things in terms of math and fundamental (well, the most fundamental found so far) physical laws. But we cannot explain the source of either of those - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_mathematics#Foundational_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_mathematics#Fou...
- lotsofpulp 7y agoAnything “can” happen if you want to define that it can. The point is that the why in many religions can lead to people thinking humans have a special status, vs the how indicating there is no reason to assume that. The problem comes when people make decisions based on god making the desired outcome to pass, such as “don’t worry about climate change, everything happens for the better and god will take care of us”. There are religions that believe their purpose is to breed and multiply, without regard to the parameters of the system, because god will take care of the problems.
- deogeo 7y agoYes, religious belief can have adverse consequences - but that's a pragmatic argument on how to act, and has no bearing on the underlying truth of whether or not some god, however defined, exists. Or if there exists more than mechanistic, mathematical nature - after all, religion and belief in an omnipotent god are not synonymous.
- Intermernet 7y agoIf that's the case, then does it matter at all if a god exists? It becomes a purely self perpetuating, entirely abstract question like "does the future exist?" Also, culturally, in the majority of the "Western" nations, religion and belief in an omnipotent god are synonymous. There are outliers and exceptions, but they have little to no sway on the zeitgeist.