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Cleverness is not related complexity in any way. Software is going to be complex. Cleverness is just going to make it harder to read/maintain. I prefer Go over

Cleverness is not related complexity in any way. Software is going to be complex. Cleverness is just going to make it harder to read/maintain. I prefer Go over other languages. I like the part that there is no cleverness around it. But why are you bothered about what google thinks of its engineers ? You can write everything in Haskell, why stop at Java/Rust ?

nnq 7y ago
1. enabling cleverness enables creating tool to manage complexity, and hopefully, to manage it with fewer people needed 2. Google "sets the intellectual trend/fashion", whether we like it or not, their attitude get copied... there was quite a bit of experimentation in the 1995 - 2015 decades, we saw stuff like real macros coming to mainstream programming languages (Julia, Scala, Rust), we saw advanced type systems become liked and used (see even TypeScript which basically supports "poor man's ADTs" now), but the "new wave" which seems inspired by G's language design trends seems to be all about throwing it all away, we're scared s'less of complexity and unmaintainabilty that using anything more that string substitutions for code generation when we really-really-really have to seems heresy. The trends seems to have creeped even into languages like Haskell where nobody's talking about template Haskell anymore and everyone or adding dependent types or whatever, it's all about focusing on package managers and limiting new features and building more tools... Python has a growth spur with 3.0 - 3.6 but that's also freezing in a way, no bold new additions coming without endless discussions.
- codegladiator 7y ago
  > 1. enabling cleverness enables creating tool to manage complexity, and hopefully, to manage it with fewer people needed No. Complexity just makes it harder to read. Go try to read your own code from 5 years ago. I just fail to read even my own code flow every where I used reflections in Java to make it clever (small code which can handle multiple scenarios). Yet I can read every golang codebase in github super easily. > 2. Google "sets the intellectual trend/fashion" No. People use what they learn quickly and what gets them productivity. I want to write a software to solve business problems, not want to write software because its cool or something. Go try to read k8s code. And try to image how it would look like in haskell. It just looks like you are trying to hate google for the wrong reasons.
  - nnq 7y ago
    > It just looks like you are trying to hate google for the wrong reasons. Ok, maybe I was a bit inflamed, actually I'm in a love-hate relationship Google's languages, both Go and Dart/Flutter, and using them more and more... but it happens again and again and again that I just wish there were some extra features that if we had them, code would be 10x smaller but still readable :) Yeah, it's "over-reacting Monday" I guess :P

nnq 7y ago

1. enabling cleverness enables creating tool to manage complexity, and hopefully, to manage it with fewer people needed 2. Google "sets the intellectual trend/fashion", whether we like it or not, their attitude get copied... there was quite a bit of experimentation in the 1995 - 2015 decades, we saw stuff like real macros coming to mainstream programming languages (Julia, Scala, Rust), we saw advanced type systems become liked and used (see even TypeScript which basically supports "poor man's ADTs" now), but the "new wave" which seems inspired by G's language design trends seems to be all about throwing it all away, we're scared s'less of complexity and unmaintainabilty that using anything more that string substitutions for code generation when we really-really-really have to seems heresy. The trends seems to have creeped even into languages like Haskell where nobody's talking about template Haskell anymore and everyone or adding dependent types or whatever, it's all about focusing on package managers and limiting new features and building more tools... Python has a growth spur with 3.0 - 3.6 but that's also freezing in a way, no bold new additions coming without endless discussions.

codegladiator 7y ago
> 1. enabling cleverness enables creating tool to manage complexity, and hopefully, to manage it with fewer people needed No. Complexity just makes it harder to read. Go try to read your own code from 5 years ago. I just fail to read even my own code flow every where I used reflections in Java to make it clever (small code which can handle multiple scenarios). Yet I can read every golang codebase in github super easily. > 2. Google "sets the intellectual trend/fashion" No. People use what they learn quickly and what gets them productivity. I want to write a software to solve business problems, not want to write software because its cool or something. Go try to read k8s code. And try to image how it would look like in haskell. It just looks like you are trying to hate google for the wrong reasons.
- nnq 7y ago
  > It just looks like you are trying to hate google for the wrong reasons. Ok, maybe I was a bit inflamed, actually I'm in a love-hate relationship Google's languages, both Go and Dart/Flutter, and using them more and more... but it happens again and again and again that I just wish there were some extra features that if we had them, code would be 10x smaller but still readable :) Yeah, it's "over-reacting Monday" I guess :P