4 ms·

The problem is density. The hawker stalls in Singapore are exactly this (pojangmachas and cafeteria dealios in Seoul, hawkers in Hong Kong), but they get to hav

The problem is density. The hawker stalls in Singapore are exactly this (pojangmachas and cafeteria dealios in Seoul, hawkers in Hong Kong), but they get to have it and your suburb doesn't because they have enough soulless 50 story apartments. Ask for a 50 story soulless concrete apartment in your neighborhood today!

jacquesm 7y ago
It's a very logical connection: low density housing leads to low density commerce and transportation problems. See also: strip malls.
arcticbull 7y ago
There’s nothing soulless about high density, it’s efficient, environmentally friendly and to your point allows and supports diversity in recreation and dining. It’s the inescapable future of human civilization, in a good way. Would you describe living in New York as soulless? It’s time to get over the dog/white picket fence/2.5 kids delusion.
- southerntofu 7y ago
  In my experience all big cities i've been through are soulless, and so are the humans living there. When i say soulless, i mean people living there have: no sense of purpose, no community, no solidarity. Everyone has sold their soul to capitalist oppression and is just silently suffering their way to success or suicide. Big cities require incredible quantities of concrete, and can't feed themselves. They are therefore NOT environmentally friendly at all (it's hard to think of something less eco-friendly). They appear to be on some stats because all the other ways of life (and local production everywhere) have been systematically attacked and almost destroyed by the "green revolution" and neoliberal policies. If you want a city that's ecofriendly, it needs to produce most of its food locally (like Cuba) and use local materials for construction (clay-based earth is really good). That, and it should designed for pedestrians/bikes not cars. That's an eco-friendly city, but it wouldn't be high-density. Although, i agree with you the suburban/countryside family delusion is no dream of mine ;)
bobthepanda 7y ago
Soulless 50 story apartments are better than soulless cookie cutter detached homes, because at least with the former it‘s easier to escape total isolation. And of course it is better for the environment.
- southerntofu 7y ago
  Neither option is humane. In both cases, the capitalist illness has destroyed any sense of community. Nobody in big cities knows their neighbors. And very few people organize against poverty, against their bosses, landlords, and police abuse. They could have a good life if they did, but don't underestimate the capacity of an oppressive system to isolate people (because it's the only way it can survive).
  - bobthepanda 7y ago
    I mean, the former Warsaw Pact states are also full of lots of "soulless" dense housing, just Communist-flavored. You can have lots of housing, cheap housing, and quality housing, but never really all three. Vienna, which a lot of people like bringing up as an example of a friendly masss housing program, recorded flat or declining population every decade until 2000, and has still not recovered from its pre-WWI peak, which wasn't even very big at 2M people.
odiroot 7y ago
High density housing works in S'pore just because it's S'pore. People respect the rules (otherwise they face consequences for asocial behaviour) and this makes the city function like a well oiled machine. The same scheme wouldn't work in many Western cities, too many self-absorbed people thinking they're more important than their community.
- azmodeus 7y ago
  It does work in the West you just need to enforce the rules. There are Western countries that do this well and there are ones that fail at enforcing these rules.
  - odiroot 7y ago
    This is why I didn't write "all". I saw it working in Switzerland myself.
- gerbilly 7y ago
  > too many self-absorbed people thinking they're more important than their community. If people in Singapore are more community minded, then why the need for the harsh enforcement? (You know, public whippings for putting your shoes on the wrong feet or whatever...)

jacquesm 7y ago

It's a very logical connection: low density housing leads to low density commerce and transportation problems. See also: strip malls.

arcticbull 7y ago

There’s nothing soulless about high density, it’s efficient, environmentally friendly and to your point allows and supports diversity in recreation and dining. It’s the inescapable future of human civilization, in a good way. Would you describe living in New York as soulless? It’s time to get over the dog/white picket fence/2.5 kids delusion.

southerntofu 7y ago
In my experience all big cities i've been through are soulless, and so are the humans living there. When i say soulless, i mean people living there have: no sense of purpose, no community, no solidarity. Everyone has sold their soul to capitalist oppression and is just silently suffering their way to success or suicide. Big cities require incredible quantities of concrete, and can't feed themselves. They are therefore NOT environmentally friendly at all (it's hard to think of something less eco-friendly). They appear to be on some stats because all the other ways of life (and local production everywhere) have been systematically attacked and almost destroyed by the "green revolution" and neoliberal policies. If you want a city that's ecofriendly, it needs to produce most of its food locally (like Cuba) and use local materials for construction (clay-based earth is really good). That, and it should designed for pedestrians/bikes not cars. That's an eco-friendly city, but it wouldn't be high-density. Although, i agree with you the suburban/countryside family delusion is no dream of mine ;)

bobthepanda 7y ago

Soulless 50 story apartments are better than soulless cookie cutter detached homes, because at least with the former it‘s easier to escape total isolation. And of course it is better for the environment.

southerntofu 7y ago
Neither option is humane. In both cases, the capitalist illness has destroyed any sense of community. Nobody in big cities knows their neighbors. And very few people organize against poverty, against their bosses, landlords, and police abuse. They could have a good life if they did, but don't underestimate the capacity of an oppressive system to isolate people (because it's the only way it can survive).
- bobthepanda 7y ago
  I mean, the former Warsaw Pact states are also full of lots of "soulless" dense housing, just Communist-flavored. You can have lots of housing, cheap housing, and quality housing, but never really all three. Vienna, which a lot of people like bringing up as an example of a friendly masss housing program, recorded flat or declining population every decade until 2000, and has still not recovered from its pre-WWI peak, which wasn't even very big at 2M people.

odiroot 7y ago

High density housing works in S'pore just because it's S'pore. People respect the rules (otherwise they face consequences for asocial behaviour) and this makes the city function like a well oiled machine. The same scheme wouldn't work in many Western cities, too many self-absorbed people thinking they're more important than their community.

azmodeus 7y ago
It does work in the West you just need to enforce the rules. There are Western countries that do this well and there are ones that fail at enforcing these rules.
- odiroot 7y ago
  This is why I didn't write "all". I saw it working in Switzerland myself.
gerbilly 7y ago
> too many self-absorbed people thinking they're more important than their community. If people in Singapore are more community minded, then why the need for the harsh enforcement? (You know, public whippings for putting your shoes on the wrong feet or whatever...)