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Police is never "shamed" into retreat. It takes decisions on tactical grounds, something that protestors, usually more emotional, fail to grasp. A retreat usua

by Iv 7y ago

Police is never "shamed" into retreat. It takes decisions on tactical grounds, something that protestors, usually more emotional, fail to grasp. A retreat usually means that they have the crowd where they want it.

danaris 7y ago
Police are humans too. They have emotions, and consciences, and, yes, a sense of shame. For some of them, these are weaker than their obedience to superiors and/or adherence to fascist principles. However, that doesn't mean they don't exist. Comments like yours dehumanize the police. They make them into a faceless Other that cannot be truly understood or engaged with by any means save violence. Worse, they do the same thing that the dehumanization of Nazis has done in the US: they sow the feeling that it could never happen to us. That these are monsters, not people. That they're somehow fundamentally different from Real Humans. The idea that no one has ever (or has recently) joined the police force because of a real belief in justice and a desire to help people is just as dangerous as the idea that every police officer is a fascist pig who wants nothing more than to put their boot on the face of humanity forever. The problems our country, and more broadly, our civilization has with the police in this age can be solved, and they can be solved without resorting to massive violence, but in order to do so, we cannot rely on the same kind of black-and-white thinking the worst of them use. We have to see them as people, and find the ways to reach their humanity.
- aaomidi 7y ago
  Police are willingly supporting a corrupt system far from all abstractions. You can argue anyone working in Hong Kong is supporting a corrupt system, or anyone working in the US is supporting a corrupt system but for all of them its so abstracted that you can't really blame the individuals. For cops, this isn't an excuse anymore. They're directly supporting it, suppressing people's free speech, and banding together to create support groups and unions against the people they're supposed to be serving and protecting. Considering the racist history of why police forces came to be, it's not surprising that people dehumanize the police force. However, I should add that for many people, especially inside big cities joining the police force is one of the best things they can do for upward mobility for their family - but in the case of ethical demonstrations (occupy wall street, black lives matter, Hong Kong protests, Iran's green protests, etc etc) they have been on the wrong side of history and have helped keep the status quo alive and active and well. Therefore, if you're part of the police during people's cry for freedom and you step in and support the government - you're going to be dehumanized. It's your choice to make - but that choice has consequences.
- Iv 7y ago
  Of course they are human! But a police force works on a hierarchy and a procedure code, not on the emotions of its members. That's a core point and is actually crucial in a democracy: police do not act on their emotions. And riot police especially learns to stay as cold-headed as possible and to give tactical considerations over any other. That gives the police an image of a cold-faced monster but I think protestors insulting the police instead of winning them over totally miss the point. And that "shaming of policemen" is just ridicule. Recently in France there was some outrage in the media as there were report that after a wave of suicide in the police some protestors chanted "Police, kill yourself". Other protestors then took the counter and one of the popular slogans was "Policemen, don't kill yourselves. Join us.". Police joining protestors is the best possible victory.
gioyuope 7y ago
The Hong Kong police should follow American tactics if they want more of the public on their side. Like in the LA riots, let the rioters run amok for a few days and wreak havoc. A lot of “everyday Hong Kongers” were starting to get angry at the rioters when they blocked the subways and disrupted people’s lives.

by Iv 7y ago

danaris 7y ago

Police are humans too. They have emotions, and consciences, and, yes, a sense of shame. For some of them, these are weaker than their obedience to superiors and/or adherence to fascist principles. However, that doesn't mean they don't exist. Comments like yours dehumanize the police. They make them into a faceless Other that cannot be truly understood or engaged with by any means save violence. Worse, they do the same thing that the dehumanization of Nazis has done in the US: they sow the feeling that it could never happen to us. That these are monsters, not people. That they're somehow fundamentally different from Real Humans. The idea that no one has ever (or has recently) joined the police force because of a real belief in justice and a desire to help people is just as dangerous as the idea that every police officer is a fascist pig who wants nothing more than to put their boot on the face of humanity forever. The problems our country, and more broadly, our civilization has with the police in this age can be solved, and they can be solved without resorting to massive violence, but in order to do so, we cannot rely on the same kind of black-and-white thinking the worst of them use. We have to see them as people, and find the ways to reach their humanity.

aaomidi 7y ago
Police are willingly supporting a corrupt system far from all abstractions. You can argue anyone working in Hong Kong is supporting a corrupt system, or anyone working in the US is supporting a corrupt system but for all of them its so abstracted that you can't really blame the individuals. For cops, this isn't an excuse anymore. They're directly supporting it, suppressing people's free speech, and banding together to create support groups and unions against the people they're supposed to be serving and protecting. Considering the racist history of why police forces came to be, it's not surprising that people dehumanize the police force. However, I should add that for many people, especially inside big cities joining the police force is one of the best things they can do for upward mobility for their family - but in the case of ethical demonstrations (occupy wall street, black lives matter, Hong Kong protests, Iran's green protests, etc etc) they have been on the wrong side of history and have helped keep the status quo alive and active and well. Therefore, if you're part of the police during people's cry for freedom and you step in and support the government - you're going to be dehumanized. It's your choice to make - but that choice has consequences.
Iv 7y ago
Of course they are human! But a police force works on a hierarchy and a procedure code, not on the emotions of its members. That's a core point and is actually crucial in a democracy: police do not act on their emotions. And riot police especially learns to stay as cold-headed as possible and to give tactical considerations over any other. That gives the police an image of a cold-faced monster but I think protestors insulting the police instead of winning them over totally miss the point. And that "shaming of policemen" is just ridicule. Recently in France there was some outrage in the media as there were report that after a wave of suicide in the police some protestors chanted "Police, kill yourself". Other protestors then took the counter and one of the popular slogans was "Policemen, don't kill yourselves. Join us.". Police joining protestors is the best possible victory.

gioyuope 7y ago

The Hong Kong police should follow American tactics if they want more of the public on their side. Like in the LA riots, let the rioters run amok for a few days and wreak havoc. A lot of “everyday Hong Kongers” were starting to get angry at the rioters when they blocked the subways and disrupted people’s lives.