3 ms·
I perform with and breath fire as a hobby. The single biggest risk to firebreathers isn't burns, but chemical pneumonitis, due to fuel inhalation (basically syn
by kortex 7y ago
I perform with and breath fire as a hobby. The single biggest risk to firebreathers isn't burns, but chemical pneumonitis, due to fuel inhalation (basically synthetic mineral oil with chain lengths 12-18). Took one look at that xray and thought, "yup, chemical pneumonitis" [1]. Also known as lipoid pneumonia.
In my research, one finding that stuck out [2] was that natural oils (triglycerides, saturated or unsaturated) are more pro-inflammatory than straight-chain mineral oils. MCT oil would absolutely cause acute inflammation and in severe cases, collapse of alveoli.
However, the long chains, longer than C14, have half-lives measured in months to years. The effects of these is harder to know, but excessive exposure causes essentially COPD.
Edit: oh look, here's an article specifically pointing out lipoid pneumonia [2]. I actually disagree with their thesis, that vegetable glycerine is causing the inflammation. I would bet it's more likely to be one of these thickeners, or a carrier agent for a flavor, causing the inflammation. I know people who go through over an ounce per day of VG solution that aren't getting chemical pneumonitis, but inhalation of sub-milliliter amounts of oils has sent friends of mine to the hospital.
Basically, if it's not air, it doesn't belong in your lungs. However, the degree and character of the damage done depends on the chemical composition.
Shorter molecules, molecules with more hydrophilic nature (alcohols, polyols, ketones, acids), biologically active molecules, are more acutely inflammatory, but usually the body can deal with them. Longer molecules, biologically inert ones, are less acutely reactive to the immune system, but can cause disruption of membranes and long term toxicity. Unsaturated fatty acids are especially bad because they can be oxidized directly into inflammatory signal chemicals. [4]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_pneumonitis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_pneumonitis
[2] pdf - https://www.ajronline.org/doi/pdf/10.2214/AJR.09.3040 https://www.ajronline.org/doi/pdf/10.2214/AJR.09.3040
"Mineral oil (a mixture of inert, long-chain, saturated
hydrocarbons obtained from petroleum) and
vegetable-based oils tend to cause minimal to
mild inflammatory reactions (Fig. 3). The intraalveolar oils can coalesce in the alveoli and
become encapsulated by fibrous tissue, resulting in a nodule or mass (paraffinoma) (Fig. 4).
Conversely, animal fats are hydrolyzed by
lung lipases into free fatty acids that trigger
a severe inflammatory reaction that manifests
as focal edema and intraalveolar hemorrhage
[5]. "
[3] html - https://casereports.bmj.com/content/2018/bcr-2018-224350 https://casereports.bmj.com/content/2018/bcr-2018-224350
[4] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2014.00483/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2014.0048...
"unsaturated fatty acids can be oxidized in a tightly regulated and specific manner to generate either potent pro-inflammatory or pro-resolving lipid mediators. "
- alephx 7y agoIsn't MCT saturated?
- kortex 7y agoYes, sorry the wording was a bit ambiguous. MCT is almost entirely saturated. Any natural oils can be broken down into free fatty acids which have a pro-inflammatory effect when "not where they belong", i.e. in the interstitial space. However, unsaturated fats have the fun additional property that they can be "oxidized in a tightly regulated and specific manner to generate either potent pro-inflammatory or pro-resolving lipid mediators" [1]. So MCT oil is probably pro-inflammatory in the lungs, but vegetable oil even more so. [1] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2014.00483/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2014.0048...
- avisser 7y agoI have used an MCT vape before. I've made some of my own carts with it as well. I wonder if you have any words on "MCT" being too broad a term. I made my carts with Bulletproof's Brain Octain, which claims to be 100% caprylic acid (C8). I'm not naive enough to ask "Is it safe?" But I'm curious if you think an 8-chain MCT would treat your lungs significantly different than a 12-chain MCT? I could easily imagine someone learning that you can make carts with MCT, and finding something cheap, only to be unknowingly using 100% C12. Cue the lipid pneumonia.
- kortex 7y agoI've breathed fire with MCT oil (the storebought stuff that is basically liquid coconut oil). It's somewhat irritating, and I imagine if deliberately inhaled chronically it would cause harm. C8 is really fascinating because, I reckon, it's too short to set off the inflammation cascade directly, so it would be up to macrophages to alert the body "hey this doesn't belong". However you still have the usual risk from hydrophobic product in the lung. Personally, I would use vegetable glycerine and nothing else if you can at all avoid it. PG is a bit more irritating than VG, but any short polyol is going to be diffused away into the mucous much more easily than hydrophobic products.