7 ms·

I'm not sure I follow. Unemployment rates are at record low. The claim that getting a job out of college "has never been more competitive and more important" se

I'm not sure I follow. Unemployment rates are at record low. The claim that getting a job out of college "has never been more competitive and more important" seems off to me, coming from someone who witnessed the 2008 depression. Back then, people were concerned with getting a job not just a high-status job.

mjevans 7y ago
The number's you're quoting are mostly economic fantasy. Under-employment is closer, but still fails to account those that have given up hope entirely or who haven't been employed before (but should be working).
- manfredo 7y ago
  Right. Now imagine what the underemployment rate was during the recession when the unemployment rate was three times higher. The claim that it's harder to get a job out of university today than it was a decade ago is very dubious.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
Hermitian909 7y ago
The parent isn't just talking about jobs though, they're talking about good jobs that allow for a comfortable life. Getting a job as a barista isn't tough in this economy, but if you have a law degree from a school that isn't from the top 40 your odds of doing any law work are getting much slimmer; I've met several such people stuck in low paying jobs. In my father's day a cashier could buy a home in a nice neighborhood (like the bay area) and live comfortably; in large portions of the country that same position now pays poverty wages and homelessness is a constant threat. Life's pretty miserable if you're constantly worried about having a roof over your head or enough food to eat.
- manfredo 7y ago
  And my point is that the delta in the difficulty of getting a good job has been negative. On other words, > if you have a law degree from a school that isn't from the top 40 your odds of doing any law work are getting much slimmer. You need to back up this claim. I don't doubt that that you have met people stuck in low paying jobs. But if you're trying to claim that it'd been getting harder to find well paying jobs while the unemployment rate has hit record lows, you're going to need to back up this claim. I was in college during the recession, and my older classmates that graduated in the early 2010s had a much tougher time than I (graduated mid 2010s) did finding a job. The observation that this pattern of depression and anxiety has risen at the same time that the economy has improved significantly is a strong indicator that the ability to get a job is not the culprit here.
- dcolkitt 7y ago
  > In my father's day a cashier could buy a home in a nice neighborhood (like the bay area) and live comfortably; Saying "I just want to live in a nice neighborhood (like the Bay Area)", is like saying "I just want to drive a decent car (like a Lamborghini)." The Bay Area is absolutely nothing like the vast majority of America, and should be the absolute last place you'd look if your goal is to live a low-stress middle-class life. The reality is that the median home in America costs $125 per square foot. I don't know how old your father is, but let's say 1973 as the benchmark. The median home then was 1500 square feet. An equivalent home would cost $187 thousand in today's market. I don't know about cashier, but the average electrician makes $55,000 per year. More than enough to easily afford the $1000/month mortgage needed for the 1973 home your father bought. Right now there's a desperate shortage of electricians and anyone with a high school diploma and a work ethic can easily move into that career. Nor are we talking about homes in burned out cities or isolated rural communities. Just check listings for Omaha, NE for example. Omaha has one of the strongest job markets in the US, with the third lowest unemployment rate in the country. Plenty of homes at that price with that size can be found in the center of the Omaha metro. The typical HN audience is massively distorted when it comes to this. By and large the average HN reader lives in one of America's ultra-high-priced metros like the Bay Area, NYC or DC. The average HN reader isn't anything even remotely approaching a middle-class American life. They're competing in cut-throat winner-take-all games to obtain ultra-prestigious positions at elite startups, FAANGs or Wall Street firms. I'd strongly suspect that the average HN reader making $100k a year "feels" poor, even though that's the top quartile of Americans. (And much higher than that adjusted for the average age of HN.) My guess is that many HNers making $500k+ a year still don't even "feel rich", despite being in the top 1% of Americans. The point is that the perception of economic conditions found on HN probably tells us about as much about everyday Americans, as the court of Versaille would tell us about the lives of 18th century French peasants. [1] https://www.realtor.com/advice/buy/average-price-per-square-foot-for-a-home/ https://www.realtor.com/advice/buy/average-price-per-square-... [2] http://www.aei.org/publication/new-us-homes-today-are-1000-square-feet-larger-than-in-1973-and-living-space-per-person-has-nearly-doubled/ http://www.aei.org/publication/new-us-homes-today-are-1000-s... [3] https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/electrician https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/electrician

mjevans 7y ago

The number's you're quoting are mostly economic fantasy. Under-employment is closer, but still fails to account those that have given up hope entirely or who haven't been employed before (but should be working).

manfredo 7y ago
Right. Now imagine what the underemployment rate was during the recession when the unemployment rate was three times higher. The claim that it's harder to get a job out of university today than it was a decade ago is very dubious.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

Hermitian909 7y ago

The parent isn't just talking about jobs though, they're talking about good jobs that allow for a comfortable life. Getting a job as a barista isn't tough in this economy, but if you have a law degree from a school that isn't from the top 40 your odds of doing any law work are getting much slimmer; I've met several such people stuck in low paying jobs. In my father's day a cashier could buy a home in a nice neighborhood (like the bay area) and live comfortably; in large portions of the country that same position now pays poverty wages and homelessness is a constant threat. Life's pretty miserable if you're constantly worried about having a roof over your head or enough food to eat.

manfredo 7y ago
And my point is that the delta in the difficulty of getting a good job has been negative. On other words, > if you have a law degree from a school that isn't from the top 40 your odds of doing any law work are getting much slimmer. You need to back up this claim. I don't doubt that that you have met people stuck in low paying jobs. But if you're trying to claim that it'd been getting harder to find well paying jobs while the unemployment rate has hit record lows, you're going to need to back up this claim. I was in college during the recession, and my older classmates that graduated in the early 2010s had a much tougher time than I (graduated mid 2010s) did finding a job. The observation that this pattern of depression and anxiety has risen at the same time that the economy has improved significantly is a strong indicator that the ability to get a job is not the culprit here.
dcolkitt 7y ago
> In my father's day a cashier could buy a home in a nice neighborhood (like the bay area) and live comfortably; Saying "I just want to live in a nice neighborhood (like the Bay Area)", is like saying "I just want to drive a decent car (like a Lamborghini)." The Bay Area is absolutely nothing like the vast majority of America, and should be the absolute last place you'd look if your goal is to live a low-stress middle-class life. The reality is that the median home in America costs $125 per square foot. I don't know how old your father is, but let's say 1973 as the benchmark. The median home then was 1500 square feet. An equivalent home would cost $187 thousand in today's market. I don't know about cashier, but the average electrician makes $55,000 per year. More than enough to easily afford the $1000/month mortgage needed for the 1973 home your father bought. Right now there's a desperate shortage of electricians and anyone with a high school diploma and a work ethic can easily move into that career. Nor are we talking about homes in burned out cities or isolated rural communities. Just check listings for Omaha, NE for example. Omaha has one of the strongest job markets in the US, with the third lowest unemployment rate in the country. Plenty of homes at that price with that size can be found in the center of the Omaha metro. The typical HN audience is massively distorted when it comes to this. By and large the average HN reader lives in one of America's ultra-high-priced metros like the Bay Area, NYC or DC. The average HN reader isn't anything even remotely approaching a middle-class American life. They're competing in cut-throat winner-take-all games to obtain ultra-prestigious positions at elite startups, FAANGs or Wall Street firms. I'd strongly suspect that the average HN reader making $100k a year "feels" poor, even though that's the top quartile of Americans. (And much higher than that adjusted for the average age of HN.) My guess is that many HNers making $500k+ a year still don't even "feel rich", despite being in the top 1% of Americans. The point is that the perception of economic conditions found on HN probably tells us about as much about everyday Americans, as the court of Versaille would tell us about the lives of 18th century French peasants. [1] https://www.realtor.com/advice/buy/average-price-per-square-foot-for-a-home/ https://www.realtor.com/advice/buy/average-price-per-square-... [2] http://www.aei.org/publication/new-us-homes-today-are-1000-square-feet-larger-than-in-1973-and-living-space-per-person-has-nearly-doubled/ http://www.aei.org/publication/new-us-homes-today-are-1000-s... [3] https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/electrician https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/electrician