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No, sorry. No secret organization assassinated Kennedy. These operations are documents, that are easy to write up in fantasy land. The fact that they're prop

No, sorry. No secret organization assassinated Kennedy. These operations are documents, that are easy to write up in fantasy land. The fact that they're proposed doesn't mean false flags occur, it just means the concept is understood by people who work in the government. Stop pretending like there's this secret organization or set of organizations that's pulling the strings or setting global agenda on any relevant level. There isn't. Everything is chaos, no one knows what the fuck is going on at any given time, and nobody is in control. Period.

MegaButts 7y ago
> No secret organization assassinated Kennedy. I really enjoyed this book, and found it very convincing. I don't want to start a thread where we argue over conspiracy theories but just thought I'd add the link if you're interested. https://www.amazon.com/Devils-Chessboard-Dulles-Americas-Government-ebook/dp/B00SFZB93Y https://www.amazon.com/Devils-Chessboard-Dulles-Americas-Gov...
- diminoten 7y ago
  I'm generally not interested, considering I know that logic and reason are not generally great models for the world without falsifiability and predictability, and neither are abundant in conspiracy "theories".
  - hanniabu 7y ago
    Sounds like the only thing that would convince you is the government speaking out and saying they've been doing this, but I think it's obvious that would never happen. We should all only believe what the government fesses up to, they'd obviously tell us if they were doing any wrongdoing. /s
    - diminoten 7y ago
      No, that's simply you trying to re-create the classic lines of this argument. You need there to be someone in control, it's the only way you stay sane, and it bothers you to no end that there simply isn't. It's the same argument religion gives, but I doubt you fall for that one, do you? Kind of funny, how inconsistent you are.
      - jddj 7y ago
        Your assumption here is that the other commenter is projecting some kind of perfect planning, coordination, foresight and execution onto these agencies. But they can be doing evil things which are in their interest without it being some situation of perfect control. It's simply that: evil shit they hope they can get away with, which if successful will probably be in their interests. Throughout history, this has been the norm for any group with power but without sufficient oversight.
        diminoten 7y ago
        Groups of people doing evil things a conspiracy theory does not make. Conspiracy theories are about alternative and under-substantiated explanations of already-explained events. "Evil shit" happens. Coordinated disinformation campaigns to misdirect the public over a long period of time by large unknown groups does not. My "assumption" is not any kind of strawman absurdist extreme (I never said anything about perfection but nice try), it's simply the reality that conspiracy theories are hallmarked by three distinct attributes that make them categorically nonsense: lack of relevant and credible evidence, lack of falsifiability, and lack of predictiveness. They literally meet none of the criteria of the definition of a theory, which is why they're a joke and have no place in rational conversation.
        hanniabu 7y ago
        > Conspiracy theories are about alternative and under-substantiated explanations of already-explained events. I don't believe Kennedy's assassination with Oswald acting alone has been explained, so it sounds like that's a conspiracy.
        diminoten 7y ago
        The Warren Commission would like a word, not to mention the literal JFK Records Act...
zzzcpan 7y ago
> The fact that they're proposed doesn't mean false flags occur There is plenty of known history of false flag operations. And they are so common, that it's essentially just a tool all those three letter agencies use. > Everything is chaos It only looks like chaos to an uninformed observer. But it's not. Check out things like Mitrokhin Archive, it should give you some ideas of how organizations pull the strings and how much not chaos any of it is.
- diminoten 7y ago
  Sorry, but no. The global geopolitical environment is chaos, and pretending otherwise may be comforting to you, but it's a false comfort. No one is in control.
  - manicdee 7y ago
    You present a false dichotomy between “everything is chaos” and “it is all controlled by one person.” The truth is elsewhere. There are many people in control, all engaged in various cooperative and competitive activities which may to the casual observer appear to be chaos only because there is too much activity for one person to analyse in real time.
    - diminoten 7y ago
      I don't present a false dichotomy at all. The conspiracies put forward by people lack evidence, predict nothing about newly released material, and refuse at all times to admit defeat. Therefore, whatever level of "control" required is simply not there. There are not many people in control, no one is engaged in any cooperation, and the chaos observed is actually chaos, not orchestrated. To say otherwise would be require the three criteria above, which does not exist, period.
godelski 7y ago
> Everything is chaos, no one knows what the fuck is going on at any given time, and nobody is in control. I think this makes more and more sense as you get older. After college and when you're in the work place you start to realize that no one has any idea what is going on, how to run their lives, and what they should do. Everyone is like this.

MegaButts 7y ago

> No secret organization assassinated Kennedy. I really enjoyed this book, and found it very convincing. I don't want to start a thread where we argue over conspiracy theories but just thought I'd add the link if you're interested. https://www.amazon.com/Devils-Chessboard-Dulles-Americas-Government-ebook/dp/B00SFZB93Y https://www.amazon.com/Devils-Chessboard-Dulles-Americas-Gov...

diminoten 7y ago
I'm generally not interested, considering I know that logic and reason are not generally great models for the world without falsifiability and predictability, and neither are abundant in conspiracy "theories".
- hanniabu 7y ago
  Sounds like the only thing that would convince you is the government speaking out and saying they've been doing this, but I think it's obvious that would never happen. We should all only believe what the government fesses up to, they'd obviously tell us if they were doing any wrongdoing. /s
  - diminoten 7y ago
    No, that's simply you trying to re-create the classic lines of this argument. You need there to be someone in control, it's the only way you stay sane, and it bothers you to no end that there simply isn't. It's the same argument religion gives, but I doubt you fall for that one, do you? Kind of funny, how inconsistent you are.
    - jddj 7y ago
      Your assumption here is that the other commenter is projecting some kind of perfect planning, coordination, foresight and execution onto these agencies. But they can be doing evil things which are in their interest without it being some situation of perfect control. It's simply that: evil shit they hope they can get away with, which if successful will probably be in their interests. Throughout history, this has been the norm for any group with power but without sufficient oversight.
      - diminoten 7y ago
        Groups of people doing evil things a conspiracy theory does not make. Conspiracy theories are about alternative and under-substantiated explanations of already-explained events. "Evil shit" happens. Coordinated disinformation campaigns to misdirect the public over a long period of time by large unknown groups does not. My "assumption" is not any kind of strawman absurdist extreme (I never said anything about perfection but nice try), it's simply the reality that conspiracy theories are hallmarked by three distinct attributes that make them categorically nonsense: lack of relevant and credible evidence, lack of falsifiability, and lack of predictiveness. They literally meet none of the criteria of the definition of a theory, which is why they're a joke and have no place in rational conversation.
        hanniabu 7y ago
        > Conspiracy theories are about alternative and under-substantiated explanations of already-explained events. I don't believe Kennedy's assassination with Oswald acting alone has been explained, so it sounds like that's a conspiracy.
        diminoten 7y ago
        The Warren Commission would like a word, not to mention the literal JFK Records Act...

zzzcpan 7y ago

> The fact that they're proposed doesn't mean false flags occur There is plenty of known history of false flag operations. And they are so common, that it's essentially just a tool all those three letter agencies use. > Everything is chaos It only looks like chaos to an uninformed observer. But it's not. Check out things like Mitrokhin Archive, it should give you some ideas of how organizations pull the strings and how much not chaos any of it is.

diminoten 7y ago
Sorry, but no. The global geopolitical environment is chaos, and pretending otherwise may be comforting to you, but it's a false comfort. No one is in control.
- manicdee 7y ago
  You present a false dichotomy between “everything is chaos” and “it is all controlled by one person.” The truth is elsewhere. There are many people in control, all engaged in various cooperative and competitive activities which may to the casual observer appear to be chaos only because there is too much activity for one person to analyse in real time.
  - diminoten 7y ago
    I don't present a false dichotomy at all. The conspiracies put forward by people lack evidence, predict nothing about newly released material, and refuse at all times to admit defeat. Therefore, whatever level of "control" required is simply not there. There are not many people in control, no one is engaged in any cooperation, and the chaos observed is actually chaos, not orchestrated. To say otherwise would be require the three criteria above, which does not exist, period.

godelski 7y ago

> Everything is chaos, no one knows what the fuck is going on at any given time, and nobody is in control. I think this makes more and more sense as you get older. After college and when you're in the work place you start to realize that no one has any idea what is going on, how to run their lives, and what they should do. Everyone is like this.