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I don't know what you're doing to start your web/app server, but for eg. apache httpd it's a matter of sudo apachectl start (and likewise for all SysV-lik

I don't know what you're doing to start your web/app server, but for eg. apache httpd it's a matter of sudo apachectl start (and likewise for all SysV-like startup scripts). For node, it's node <yourapp.js> (or rather using node-forever or node-cluster in prod). If you want to have it started on boot automatically, you put that line into your startup script. It doesn't get any more simple and transparent than that. Why would you be sad if Debian and RH diverge? Linux started as a one-man show and became a huge community effort because it could run a wealth of F/OSS software. If you want a single-vendor OS, there's Windows, Mac OS, the BSDs, and others. Or maybe IBM RHEL in the future.

ses1984 7y ago
If you do `sudo apache start` in production, how do you do it? Log in to the server and type it in? What about log and metrics agents, how do you start and configure those? Also why are you so judgemental? I don't want Debian and rhel to diverge because I have clients who use both and I don't want to have to do more work to support both.
- tannhaeuser 7y ago
  Sorry I didn't want to sound judgemental. My point was that your argument, taken to the extreme, undermines having multiple Linux distributions in the first place. Which is exactly the embrace-extend-extinguish aspect being talked about elsewhere in this thread.
  - ses1984 7y ago
    I just can't conceive of how init could be extinguished, or how life would be worse in any way for me if I was never forced to deal with init again. What's the bad angle? Do I actually have skin in this game I didn't realize? Edit: I am super duper cool with having multiple Linux distributions. I am just not really excited about being forced to interact with vastly different distros specifically in the course of doing my job.
znpy 7y ago
yup, sudo apachectl start. But... how do you make sure it's done at boot? what if the machines boots up unattended, maybe after a power loss? and where do you put the apachectl binary? And what would happen if for any reason apache crashes? will it stay crashed? will something restart it? if so, what thing will? and what if you need to run it in a restricted environment (let's say something easy, let's say a chroot) ? and what if you want to have upper limits to the resources that it's supposed to use? how do you check if it's running, and how much resources is it consuming ? Systemd units make all of those things trivial, or at least not that hard.

ses1984 7y ago

If you do `sudo apache start` in production, how do you do it? Log in to the server and type it in? What about log and metrics agents, how do you start and configure those? Also why are you so judgemental? I don't want Debian and rhel to diverge because I have clients who use both and I don't want to have to do more work to support both.

tannhaeuser 7y ago
Sorry I didn't want to sound judgemental. My point was that your argument, taken to the extreme, undermines having multiple Linux distributions in the first place. Which is exactly the embrace-extend-extinguish aspect being talked about elsewhere in this thread.
- ses1984 7y ago
  I just can't conceive of how init could be extinguished, or how life would be worse in any way for me if I was never forced to deal with init again. What's the bad angle? Do I actually have skin in this game I didn't realize? Edit: I am super duper cool with having multiple Linux distributions. I am just not really excited about being forced to interact with vastly different distros specifically in the course of doing my job.

znpy 7y ago

yup, sudo apachectl start. But... how do you make sure it's done at boot? what if the machines boots up unattended, maybe after a power loss? and where do you put the apachectl binary? And what would happen if for any reason apache crashes? will it stay crashed? will something restart it? if so, what thing will? and what if you need to run it in a restricted environment (let's say something easy, let's say a chroot) ? and what if you want to have upper limits to the resources that it's supposed to use? how do you check if it's running, and how much resources is it consuming ? Systemd units make all of those things trivial, or at least not that hard.