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Webdevs don’t seem to have much of a user-centric view of the sites they develop. The vast majority of use cases on the web are “I want to see a list of options

Webdevs don’t seem to have much of a user-centric view of the sites they develop. The vast majority of use cases on the web are “I want to see a list of options then fill in a form”. All the tech needed to shop online or bank or pay bills or book travel or whatever existed 20 years ago (SSL being the last piece of the puzzle, all the rest is just plain HTML).

pjmlp 7y ago
Fully agree, plain old cached SSR with a little sprinkle of JavaScript when it really matters.
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  The thing is too, anyone can do that. HTML forms are easy, generating HTML is easy. There just doesn’t need to be any webdevs, the dedicated role doesn’t need to exist. No amount of trying to rebrand themselves as “full stack engineers” will save them when that realisation dawns on the people paying their over-inflated salaries!
  - javajosh 7y ago
    As long as the web is a viable software distribution platform, the world will need "webdevs". 2019 is still a chaotic time for the platform, and winners and losers still haven't really shaken out, not even at a basic architectural level. There are profound questions about what computation gets done where, what side-effects happen where, which in turn influences everything about how software is built, tested, distributed, and run, and yet they aren't really answered so much as philosophized about.
paulryanrogers 7y ago
If form controls like select lists and checkboxes were style-able and compose-able I think it would reduce the need for JS in many cases. Multi select in particular feels like it's stuck in the 90's. Also select's lack of consistent search capabilities is painful.
- paulddraper 7y ago
  Searchable select is now a thing (for 90% of users at least). https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/datalist https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/da...
- userbinator 7y ago
  Sorry, I'm not convinced that UI elements need to be "style-able" by the site. Every site ends up being slightly different from others as a result, because it feels the need to reinvent its own custom UI controls with their own behaviour inconsistent from the OS or even the browser's UI. (I have the same gripe about "native" Electron apps.)
  - oblio 7y ago
    Yeah, good luck with that. Every company wants to stand out. There's no money to be made from conformity.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Izkata 7y ago
  Select elements are pretty decently style-able nowadays [0], though the options in the dropdown don't seem to be supported (at least in Firefox). https://www.filamentgroup.com/lab/select-css.html https://www.filamentgroup.com/lab/select-css.html
- infamia 7y ago
  I'm certainly no CSS guru. And as you said, CSS doesn't cover everything. However, you can do quite a bit with CSS that most developers don't bother with: https://bradleytaunt.com/dynamic-checkboxes/ https://bradleytaunt.com/dynamic-checkboxes/ https://bradleytaunt.com/easy-custom-radio-inputs/ https://bradleytaunt.com/easy-custom-radio-inputs/ https://normform.netlify.com/ https://normform.netlify.com/

pjmlp 7y ago

Fully agree, plain old cached SSR with a little sprinkle of JavaScript when it really matters.

goatinaboat 7y ago
The thing is too, anyone can do that. HTML forms are easy, generating HTML is easy. There just doesn’t need to be any webdevs, the dedicated role doesn’t need to exist. No amount of trying to rebrand themselves as “full stack engineers” will save them when that realisation dawns on the people paying their over-inflated salaries!
- javajosh 7y ago
  As long as the web is a viable software distribution platform, the world will need "webdevs". 2019 is still a chaotic time for the platform, and winners and losers still haven't really shaken out, not even at a basic architectural level. There are profound questions about what computation gets done where, what side-effects happen where, which in turn influences everything about how software is built, tested, distributed, and run, and yet they aren't really answered so much as philosophized about.

paulryanrogers 7y ago

If form controls like select lists and checkboxes were style-able and compose-able I think it would reduce the need for JS in many cases. Multi select in particular feels like it's stuck in the 90's. Also select's lack of consistent search capabilities is painful.

paulddraper 7y ago
Searchable select is now a thing (for 90% of users at least). https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/datalist https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/da...
userbinator 7y ago
Sorry, I'm not convinced that UI elements need to be "style-able" by the site. Every site ends up being slightly different from others as a result, because it feels the need to reinvent its own custom UI controls with their own behaviour inconsistent from the OS or even the browser's UI. (I have the same gripe about "native" Electron apps.)
- oblio 7y ago
  Yeah, good luck with that. Every company wants to stand out. There's no money to be made from conformity.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Izkata 7y ago
Select elements are pretty decently style-able nowadays [0], though the options in the dropdown don't seem to be supported (at least in Firefox). https://www.filamentgroup.com/lab/select-css.html https://www.filamentgroup.com/lab/select-css.html
infamia 7y ago
I'm certainly no CSS guru. And as you said, CSS doesn't cover everything. However, you can do quite a bit with CSS that most developers don't bother with: https://bradleytaunt.com/dynamic-checkboxes/ https://bradleytaunt.com/dynamic-checkboxes/ https://bradleytaunt.com/easy-custom-radio-inputs/ https://bradleytaunt.com/easy-custom-radio-inputs/ https://normform.netlify.com/ https://normform.netlify.com/