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The problem with this is that the web is competing with native apps. A vanilla HTML site might be good enough in some cases but often you really need to push th

The problem with this is that the web is competing with native apps. A vanilla HTML site might be good enough in some cases but often you really need to push the envelope of what’s possible the web and that’s hard to do and also support niche browsers on a tight development budget.

potench 7y ago
You can install a “progressive web app” as a native Android app now. There’s been a big push to develop PWAs on the heels of react and single page apps for a couple years now - google is doing a good job trying to support the web as users move so aggressively to mobile. Facebook basically has its own browser in-app(iOS and Android), i bet that browser has more traffic than Firefox.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Google is a bit schizophrenic though. You can watch IO talks from Android, Chrome, Flutter where the presenter eventually throws some jabs at other competing stacks as if they aren't from the same employer.
  - notyourword 7y ago
    Using the word schizophrenic like that contributes to the stigma associated with psychotic mental illness. It is ableist to use a disability you don't have as a metaphor.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      So the censorship of how we are allowed to speak has arrived to HN?
      - lightedman 7y ago
        It was always here, right in the rules dictating how you are to speak. Corporations acting like dictators. Makes you feel all nice and warm, doesn't it?
      - notyourword 7y ago
        You can call disabilty politics censorship if that is what makes you feel good.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        What makes me feel good is freedom of speech and fight against the return of the kind of government my ancestors were forced to live on.
  - GuB-42 7y ago
    All large companies are schizophrenic to some extent. Where I work, departments bill each other. Sometimes, two departments develop competing tools that are third department could make use of. Instead the third department use an off the shelf tool because the "license" for the internal tools is too expensive. At these scales, companies are almost like states. A group of entities with shared services but otherwise working independently.
userbinator 7y ago
The problem with this is that the web is competing with native apps. Only for certain things. A lot of web browsing is still pure information-consumption. The "native apps" are also turning into effective webapps, thanks to Electron and the like. Even this site, which is interactive, doesn't require JS to use (it provides some enhancements, but the site is still quite usable without.)
- TheGoddessInari 7y ago
  Google's practices pushing web non-standards haphazardly are so heinous that even Electron can't usually handle general web apps, like WhatsApp (especially) because it depends on Chrome-specific, not even Chromium, features. Many others are the same way.
  - echelon 7y ago
    Can you cite this? I'm collecting a laundry list of reasons Google has degraded the web, and this is certainly evidence.
    - green-eclipse 7y ago
      If you go back in time far enough, Google has improved the web exponentially more than it has harmed it.
      - huehehue 7y ago
        This is a bit hard to say, right? Google is also responsible for the normalization of aggressive user tracking and the creation of the ad-ridden tire fire that is the modern internet.
    - DCoder 7y ago
      I wrote up one example that was particularly frustrating when I realized it [0]. [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ar1qj1/_/egl52wk/ https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ar1qj1/_/egl52...
LeoNatan25 7y ago
> The problem with this is that the web is competing with native apps. Only in the minds of web “devs”.
- hazz99 7y ago
  > "dev" Drop those apostrophes - a web developer is a completely valid, skilled profession. Web apps unequivocally compete with native apps, that is a fact. I prefer the Slack web client to the native version. I use Google Docs instead of Microsoft Word. I use Google Drive, iCloud, Google Photos etc. instead of my own harddrive. To think that web apps don't compete with native apps is simply untrue.
  - tambre 7y ago
    > I prefer the Slack web client to the native version. Slack doesn't have a native version, does it? They have a desktop client, but that's just the web version wrapped inside Electron.
    - benzoate 7y ago
      The iOS and iPad apps are native, as far as I can gather, and there are differences in how the conversations are laid out (e.g. date separators).
  - LeoNatan25 7y ago
    _You_ use? Good for you! And? A web developer, doing what they know what to do on the web, is a legitimate developer. A web "developer" that only knows webdev, doesn't have the skill or will to learn anything else but webdev, insists on splurging web crap as "apps" outside of the web—that's, to me, is not legitimate, and "dev" worthy.
inetknght 7y ago
> The problem with this is that the web is competing with native apps. No it isn't. Competition with native apps is the completely wrong way to think of it. The web should complement native apps.

potench 7y ago

You can install a “progressive web app” as a native Android app now. There’s been a big push to develop PWAs on the heels of react and single page apps for a couple years now - google is doing a good job trying to support the web as users move so aggressively to mobile. Facebook basically has its own browser in-app(iOS and Android), i bet that browser has more traffic than Firefox.

pjmlp 7y ago
Google is a bit schizophrenic though. You can watch IO talks from Android, Chrome, Flutter where the presenter eventually throws some jabs at other competing stacks as if they aren't from the same employer.
- notyourword 7y ago
  Using the word schizophrenic like that contributes to the stigma associated with psychotic mental illness. It is ableist to use a disability you don't have as a metaphor.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    So the censorship of how we are allowed to speak has arrived to HN?
    - lightedman 7y ago
      It was always here, right in the rules dictating how you are to speak. Corporations acting like dictators. Makes you feel all nice and warm, doesn't it?
    - notyourword 7y ago
      You can call disabilty politics censorship if that is what makes you feel good.
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        What makes me feel good is freedom of speech and fight against the return of the kind of government my ancestors were forced to live on.
- GuB-42 7y ago
  All large companies are schizophrenic to some extent. Where I work, departments bill each other. Sometimes, two departments develop competing tools that are third department could make use of. Instead the third department use an off the shelf tool because the "license" for the internal tools is too expensive. At these scales, companies are almost like states. A group of entities with shared services but otherwise working independently.

userbinator 7y ago

The problem with this is that the web is competing with native apps. Only for certain things. A lot of web browsing is still pure information-consumption. The "native apps" are also turning into effective webapps, thanks to Electron and the like. Even this site, which is interactive, doesn't require JS to use (it provides some enhancements, but the site is still quite usable without.)

TheGoddessInari 7y ago
Google's practices pushing web non-standards haphazardly are so heinous that even Electron can't usually handle general web apps, like WhatsApp (especially) because it depends on Chrome-specific, not even Chromium, features. Many others are the same way.
- echelon 7y ago
  Can you cite this? I'm collecting a laundry list of reasons Google has degraded the web, and this is certainly evidence.
  - green-eclipse 7y ago
    If you go back in time far enough, Google has improved the web exponentially more than it has harmed it.
    - huehehue 7y ago
      This is a bit hard to say, right? Google is also responsible for the normalization of aggressive user tracking and the creation of the ad-ridden tire fire that is the modern internet.
  - DCoder 7y ago
    I wrote up one example that was particularly frustrating when I realized it [0]. [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ar1qj1/_/egl52wk/ https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ar1qj1/_/egl52...

LeoNatan25 7y ago

> The problem with this is that the web is competing with native apps. Only in the minds of web “devs”.

hazz99 7y ago
> "dev" Drop those apostrophes - a web developer is a completely valid, skilled profession. Web apps unequivocally compete with native apps, that is a fact. I prefer the Slack web client to the native version. I use Google Docs instead of Microsoft Word. I use Google Drive, iCloud, Google Photos etc. instead of my own harddrive. To think that web apps don't compete with native apps is simply untrue.
- tambre 7y ago
  > I prefer the Slack web client to the native version. Slack doesn't have a native version, does it? They have a desktop client, but that's just the web version wrapped inside Electron.
  - benzoate 7y ago
    The iOS and iPad apps are native, as far as I can gather, and there are differences in how the conversations are laid out (e.g. date separators).
- LeoNatan25 7y ago
  _You_ use? Good for you! And? A web developer, doing what they know what to do on the web, is a legitimate developer. A web "developer" that only knows webdev, doesn't have the skill or will to learn anything else but webdev, insists on splurging web crap as "apps" outside of the web—that's, to me, is not legitimate, and "dev" worthy.

inetknght 7y ago

> The problem with this is that the web is competing with native apps. No it isn't. Competition with native apps is the completely wrong way to think of it. The web should complement native apps.