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At this point in my career I won’t do coding tests or problems at home or over the phone. I’ve done my fair share of hiring and I’ve never needed to resort to s

At this point in my career I won’t do coding tests or problems at home or over the phone. I’ve done my fair share of hiring and I’ve never needed to resort to such things. Being asked to perform these tasks is actually a pretty good litmus test to filter out companies. Also, I expect a certain degree of deference given my resume shows a 25 year history of implementing and delivering systems.

dahart 7y ago
I have about the same amount of professional experience, and have done lots of hiring and leading of teams. A few years ago I took a job that interviewed me with a coding test. (Which was only one of many phases of the interview). The coding test was quite fun, the company allowed the test in the language of my choice, and it was mostly about implementing rules for a game, and for bonus points, some A.I. to play the game. Not very long after taking the job, I was doing the interviewing and administering the coding tests to interviewees. There were applicants with a decade or more of experience who, like you, expected some deference and were annoyed or offended, and complained about having to take a coding test. But they were applying for programming roles, not management. Those people didn’t get hired; negative attitudes are a red flag. In effect, this particular company likewise used them as a litmus test to filter out applicants unwilling (or unable) to demonstrate their advertised abilities. Note especially how the coding test is actually being used to evaluate attitude and things other than coding skill. It’s not valid to assume that being asked to do a coding test implies that someone doesn’t believe you about your experience. That said, resumes are very easy to fluff up with big sounding projects, so talking through past project details and demonstrating your abilities with a coding test should be par for the course if you want to change companies. I actually agree and I don’t think coding projects are necessary for hiring, but I do think they’re useful, not bad, and I don’t give deference to anyone when I’m interviewing, no matter how accomplished. I look for people who are smart, willing to learn, excited to do the job, excited to interview for my company, and willing to try.
thoman23 7y ago
How much hiring and interviewing have you done? I've seen countless resumes with 25 years of stated glorious achievements, and they couldn't write a for loop.
- 0x445442 7y ago
  I've done quite a bit and have never had any difficulty sniffing out "gloss" with just a few minutes of questions over the phone using the applicant's resume as a starting point for the conversation. When you're focused on system implementation, delivery and maintenance you can pick one of the past projects listed and start probing. It's not hard to quickly get a picture of what the candidate did and didn't do on the project and whether or not they're blowing smoke.
  - neilv 7y ago
    Exactly. Of course, we do have to be a bit careful how we ask about past projects, to avoid the appearance of being exposed to IP, but it's doable. We can also just talk about hypothetical design problems (and they can learn about us based on the questions we ask, even if we're not doing a collaborative exercise). But no whiteboard CS101 coding negging.
neilv 7y ago
I don't expect deference. I expect an experienced developer to be able to tell -- from talking with me, and from looking at open source work, and from asking my references -- that we are peers. I'm happy to have real technical discussions and sketch out things, but I've seen enough negging "coding interviews" administered by smug people, and it seems to have little-to-nothing to do with legitimately assessing competence. I'd also like to have an opportunity to get a sense of the people from talking with them. The FAANG coding theatre performance that undergrads now drill for doesn't tell me much about the team's personality, competence, and working style -- all it tells me is that apparently they are willing to play along with that dysfunctional one-sided game.

dahart 7y ago

I have about the same amount of professional experience, and have done lots of hiring and leading of teams. A few years ago I took a job that interviewed me with a coding test. (Which was only one of many phases of the interview). The coding test was quite fun, the company allowed the test in the language of my choice, and it was mostly about implementing rules for a game, and for bonus points, some A.I. to play the game. Not very long after taking the job, I was doing the interviewing and administering the coding tests to interviewees. There were applicants with a decade or more of experience who, like you, expected some deference and were annoyed or offended, and complained about having to take a coding test. But they were applying for programming roles, not management. Those people didn’t get hired; negative attitudes are a red flag. In effect, this particular company likewise used them as a litmus test to filter out applicants unwilling (or unable) to demonstrate their advertised abilities. Note especially how the coding test is actually being used to evaluate attitude and things other than coding skill. It’s not valid to assume that being asked to do a coding test implies that someone doesn’t believe you about your experience. That said, resumes are very easy to fluff up with big sounding projects, so talking through past project details and demonstrating your abilities with a coding test should be par for the course if you want to change companies. I actually agree and I don’t think coding projects are necessary for hiring, but I do think they’re useful, not bad, and I don’t give deference to anyone when I’m interviewing, no matter how accomplished. I look for people who are smart, willing to learn, excited to do the job, excited to interview for my company, and willing to try.

thoman23 7y ago

How much hiring and interviewing have you done? I've seen countless resumes with 25 years of stated glorious achievements, and they couldn't write a for loop.

0x445442 7y ago
I've done quite a bit and have never had any difficulty sniffing out "gloss" with just a few minutes of questions over the phone using the applicant's resume as a starting point for the conversation. When you're focused on system implementation, delivery and maintenance you can pick one of the past projects listed and start probing. It's not hard to quickly get a picture of what the candidate did and didn't do on the project and whether or not they're blowing smoke.
- neilv 7y ago
  Exactly. Of course, we do have to be a bit careful how we ask about past projects, to avoid the appearance of being exposed to IP, but it's doable. We can also just talk about hypothetical design problems (and they can learn about us based on the questions we ask, even if we're not doing a collaborative exercise). But no whiteboard CS101 coding negging.

neilv 7y ago

I don't expect deference. I expect an experienced developer to be able to tell -- from talking with me, and from looking at open source work, and from asking my references -- that we are peers. I'm happy to have real technical discussions and sketch out things, but I've seen enough negging "coding interviews" administered by smug people, and it seems to have little-to-nothing to do with legitimately assessing competence. I'd also like to have an opportunity to get a sense of the people from talking with them. The FAANG coding theatre performance that undergrads now drill for doesn't tell me much about the team's personality, competence, and working style -- all it tells me is that apparently they are willing to play along with that dysfunctional one-sided game.