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There would be a lot more academic jobs for Ph.D.s if colleges and universities hired as many professors as undergrads need. Unfortunately, this would cost a lo

There would be a lot more academic jobs for Ph.D.s if colleges and universities hired as many professors as undergrads need. Unfortunately, this would cost a lot of money, so we're left with undergrads suffering gigantic classes and doctorates suffering joblessness.

javert 16y ago
How many professors do undergrads "need"? I think we need to revamp the system to focus more on self-learning, and decrease the emphasis on lectures. No point in having a super expert physics researcher tenured professor who hates teaching and can't teach worth shit teaching a bunch of students, when he could be doing his research and the students could be watching a recorded lecture of the same material from someone who likes teaching, over the internet (e.g. MIT's online course offerings).
- jaxtapose 16y ago
  > I think we need to revamp the system to focus more on self-learning, and decrease the emphasis on lectures. Self learning, as a single mechanism, sucks. You get little directed guidance from people who've got an amazing amount of understanding. Lectures also suck, at least for many programs. What's the alternative? Well, that's tough and it's probably program specific. Computer Science (that's my background) could probably be saved through studio like programs. A lot less lectures, but more building wicked cool things while being mentored by teaching staff. The problem is, studio process is labour intensive. Sure, you'd still need to stand up and describe things in a lecture like format to people. However, you wouldn't need to do it for 2 - 4 hours every week. Just highly specific courses. Hell, the lecturers for that content wouldn't even have to be the course coordinators, they could be specialists who get dragged in to do that specialised content and then released after the 2 or 3 weeks covering it. I mean, think about how awesome AI class would be if the bulk of the time was building solutions for the Google AI challenge? How about instead of having someone yap on about Ubiquitous Computing over 40 hours of the semester, you actually built solutions that used it? What language, APIs, whatever do you use in your project? The lecturer doesn't care. Hell, some studios could focus on solving a problem and let the students justify their own solutions. Imagine remote collaborative computing as an example. Some kids might focus on building web apps that facilitate collaboration. Others might build tools that distribute work nicely. Others still might try to make virtual office spaces with large displays and computer vision technology. Students would actually get to experience stuff that they were deeply interested in. Sure, other programs are less likely to be able to use studio like processes. So, in those cases remote lectures are probably a much better idea. However, what happens if you're just not getting it? Who do you go see? You're still going to need face time.
- pyre 16y ago
  Even if you're into self-learning, having more professors to give one-on-one time with students that need help/questions answered could be a good thing.
  - BahUnfair 16y ago
    A lot of the questions students have could be answered by fellow peers. I know blackboard is a well hated program but (at least at my university) it has a forum for each course that students often use to ask questions or exercise their knowledge for their peer's benefit. Maybe we don't need to get more lecturers so much as encourage students to ask each other questions.
    - hugh3 16y ago
      This was a good thing my university did in first-year physics -- we had one hour a week of problem sessions where we were forced to work through a bunch of questions in groups of four. This made sure everybody was basically on the same page vis a vis the basics. I don't know if it would work once you got beyond first year and into the more difficult material.
- te_chris 16y ago
  But then how could the students watching the recorded video ask questions of the lecturer? There are many problems with the way higher education is delivered, but i doubt video is the answer. There needs to be some sort of recognition and employment position created within academic institutions that doesn't punish academics because they enjoy teaching. Video lessons are not really that solution when you consider that this issue (lack of effective teachers at tertiary level and lack of encouragement for academic staff to be good teachers) is one primarily born out of the greed of academic institutions.
  - aridiculous 16y ago
    This could vary by institution, but at my former school (and the ones on MIT open courseware), students rarely ask questions. There's some embarrassment factor, but I suspect it's mostly because it takes time to formulate your confusion into a question AND there's simply not enough time for everybody's questions, and every student feels that.
    - te_chris 16y ago
      I guess I was less addressing the issue of asking questions in class (which you're right, did not happen a lot in the bigger lectures at my university - though it still did - but was super important once you were at 300 level and above and the classes we're a lot smaller with a lot more dialogue between lecturer and student) than the fact that this sort of policy gives academic institutions (that charge students thousands of dollars to attend) even less incentive to provide students with quality education from enthusiastic teachers.
- hugh3 16y ago
  No point in having a super expert physics researcher tenured professor who hates teaching and can't teach worth shit teaching a bunch of students Some of the best physics professors I ever had were super expert physics researcher tenured professors who hated teaching. They weren't quite as good as the super experts who liked teaching, but they were better than the ones loved teaching but didn't have nearly enough knowledge to go far beyond the coursework. And certainly a lot better than a video of the same material.
  - kijinbear 16y ago
    Also, certainly a lot better than TAs (grad students who only barely know the course material).

javert 16y ago

How many professors do undergrads "need"? I think we need to revamp the system to focus more on self-learning, and decrease the emphasis on lectures. No point in having a super expert physics researcher tenured professor who hates teaching and can't teach worth shit teaching a bunch of students, when he could be doing his research and the students could be watching a recorded lecture of the same material from someone who likes teaching, over the internet (e.g. MIT's online course offerings).

jaxtapose 16y ago
> I think we need to revamp the system to focus more on self-learning, and decrease the emphasis on lectures. Self learning, as a single mechanism, sucks. You get little directed guidance from people who've got an amazing amount of understanding. Lectures also suck, at least for many programs. What's the alternative? Well, that's tough and it's probably program specific. Computer Science (that's my background) could probably be saved through studio like programs. A lot less lectures, but more building wicked cool things while being mentored by teaching staff. The problem is, studio process is labour intensive. Sure, you'd still need to stand up and describe things in a lecture like format to people. However, you wouldn't need to do it for 2 - 4 hours every week. Just highly specific courses. Hell, the lecturers for that content wouldn't even have to be the course coordinators, they could be specialists who get dragged in to do that specialised content and then released after the 2 or 3 weeks covering it. I mean, think about how awesome AI class would be if the bulk of the time was building solutions for the Google AI challenge? How about instead of having someone yap on about Ubiquitous Computing over 40 hours of the semester, you actually built solutions that used it? What language, APIs, whatever do you use in your project? The lecturer doesn't care. Hell, some studios could focus on solving a problem and let the students justify their own solutions. Imagine remote collaborative computing as an example. Some kids might focus on building web apps that facilitate collaboration. Others might build tools that distribute work nicely. Others still might try to make virtual office spaces with large displays and computer vision technology. Students would actually get to experience stuff that they were deeply interested in. Sure, other programs are less likely to be able to use studio like processes. So, in those cases remote lectures are probably a much better idea. However, what happens if you're just not getting it? Who do you go see? You're still going to need face time.
pyre 16y ago
Even if you're into self-learning, having more professors to give one-on-one time with students that need help/questions answered could be a good thing.
- BahUnfair 16y ago
  A lot of the questions students have could be answered by fellow peers. I know blackboard is a well hated program but (at least at my university) it has a forum for each course that students often use to ask questions or exercise their knowledge for their peer's benefit. Maybe we don't need to get more lecturers so much as encourage students to ask each other questions.
  - hugh3 16y ago
    This was a good thing my university did in first-year physics -- we had one hour a week of problem sessions where we were forced to work through a bunch of questions in groups of four. This made sure everybody was basically on the same page vis a vis the basics. I don't know if it would work once you got beyond first year and into the more difficult material.
te_chris 16y ago
But then how could the students watching the recorded video ask questions of the lecturer? There are many problems with the way higher education is delivered, but i doubt video is the answer. There needs to be some sort of recognition and employment position created within academic institutions that doesn't punish academics because they enjoy teaching. Video lessons are not really that solution when you consider that this issue (lack of effective teachers at tertiary level and lack of encouragement for academic staff to be good teachers) is one primarily born out of the greed of academic institutions.
- aridiculous 16y ago
  This could vary by institution, but at my former school (and the ones on MIT open courseware), students rarely ask questions. There's some embarrassment factor, but I suspect it's mostly because it takes time to formulate your confusion into a question AND there's simply not enough time for everybody's questions, and every student feels that.
  - te_chris 16y ago
    I guess I was less addressing the issue of asking questions in class (which you're right, did not happen a lot in the bigger lectures at my university - though it still did - but was super important once you were at 300 level and above and the classes we're a lot smaller with a lot more dialogue between lecturer and student) than the fact that this sort of policy gives academic institutions (that charge students thousands of dollars to attend) even less incentive to provide students with quality education from enthusiastic teachers.
hugh3 16y ago
No point in having a super expert physics researcher tenured professor who hates teaching and can't teach worth shit teaching a bunch of students Some of the best physics professors I ever had were super expert physics researcher tenured professors who hated teaching. They weren't quite as good as the super experts who liked teaching, but they were better than the ones loved teaching but didn't have nearly enough knowledge to go far beyond the coursework. And certainly a lot better than a video of the same material.
- kijinbear 16y ago
  Also, certainly a lot better than TAs (grad students who only barely know the course material).