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I took Amtrak regularly along the East Coast. Door-to-door was both faster and cheaper than flying, plus the experience was a lot more pleasant. Less travelled

I took Amtrak regularly along the East Coast. Door-to-door was both faster and cheaper than flying, plus the experience was a lot more pleasant. Less travelled routes have a chicken-and-egg problem: nobody uses them, so they’re not a priority, so they get even worse. NYC to Montreal, for example, should be 2x as fast as it currently is....

mlthoughts2018 7y ago
The Acela line with business & first class is literally the only quality Amtrak line in the country. For that line, and that line only, it can be worthwhile as an alternative to flying or driving among a select few destination spanning from DC to Boston. I’m sure that line accounts for some wildly disproportionate revenue for Amtrak, but in most other places people prefer to pay cheaper fares and don’t care about the surrounding quality properties enough to pay more for them.
- mattkrause 7y ago
  And that’s the only major part of the network where Amtrak controls the tracks. Elsewhere, it’s hamstrung by limited capacity and bad/illegal behavior by private operators. The Office of the Inspector General put together a fairly comprehensive report about this: https://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/default/files/Amtrak_Root_Causes_Final_Report_9_8_08_with_508_charts.pdf https://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/default/files/Amtrak_Root_Caus... In principle, this could easily be fixed—-and cracking down operators ignoring the preference rules did help a lot—-but people have to want it.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  I would disagree (or maybe you have much higher expectations than I do). I find the NE regional to be quite nice as long as you aren't trying to go all the way from boston to DC. and going up the hudson river on the empire line is simply a lovely experience.
  - mlthoughts2018 7y ago
    Yeah, our preferences for what an Amtrak priced fare should provide are likely just different. I won’t ride Amtrak at all unless it’s business or first class, and typically I just buy far in advance or simply don’t travel if these fares are too high. The price for coach tickets is ludicrous to me when accounting for the crowdedness / mad dash to get seats. The last time I rode coach on NE regional lines, my girlfriend & I arrived over an hour early for the train & we had to stand up and hold our suitcases for the first 90 minutes of the ride because there were simply no seats. We walked back to front every coach car and every seat was taken and all of the luggage racks were filled. I get frazzled by hectic transportation experiences so it was especially nasty for me. For a $70-80 fare, I expect easy access to a comfortable seat, ample space for 1-2 bags / suitcases directly at my seat area, and easy ability for multiple people in the same party to get seats directly next to each other. I hate that Amtrak locks these (basic) amenities behind business & first class fares, and essentially acts like a slumlord towards their coach class service.
empath75 7y ago
The Acela is fantastic and I pretty much only use it for traveling to New York if I can expense it.
- dhimes 7y ago
  From Baltimore or Boston? I/we use it from Boston and recommend it.
13of40 7y ago
They have Amtrak service along the west coast, and I've taken the Seattle to Eugene and Seattle to Vancouver trains. I was unimpressed, because the maximum speed is about 80 miles per hour, like most of I-5 (edit: I mean that's effectively how fast people drive, not the speed limit), and the fare is so high you could actually rent a car for a few days instead, especially if there's more than one of you traveling. (Seattle -> Eugene, a 4 hour trip, one way starts at $78 according to their website.) I've always suspected it was a critical mass thing, and if more people used the service the price might go down, but for a self-interested individual, it just doesn't make sense right now.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  > I've always suspected it was a critical mass thing, and if more people used the service the price might go down, but for a self-interested individual, it just doesn't make sense right now. personally I find traveling on amtrak to be a lovely experience. even on the NE regional I usually get a whole row to myself if it isn't a holiday weekend. of course, this is probably why it's so expensive. on the other hand if the ridership went up, it wouldn't be such a nice experience anymore.
  - 13of40 7y ago
    Oh, don't get me wrong: I like trains in general, and I've got many fond memories of train adventures in Europe and Asia. Amtrak can be pleasant if you're just touring around. If you're looking for a serious mode of travel, though, the train system on the west coast is a joke. It's in a weird spot where if you care about money you can take a bus and if you care about convenience you can take a plane, but if you don't care about either...take Amtrak?
- FireBeyond 7y ago
  > Seattle -> Eugene, a 4 hour trip The days/times when you can get through the Puget Sound, JBLM corridor in less than 2 or more hours for that segment alone are rapidly declining. It can easily take 2h+ to get from Federal Way to Olympia, even in non peak hours.
joshuaheard 7y ago
If you took out the government-imposed security check at airports, would it still be faster?
- mattkrause 7y ago
  It would certainly help. Dulles and Newark are still pretty far from the downtowns they serve, so there’s 30-60 minutes, plus the time to actually exit the airport, that you’re stuck with. Admittedly, Logan and LGA are a bit closer to their cities, but LGA is also terrible, so....

mlthoughts2018 7y ago

The Acela line with business & first class is literally the only quality Amtrak line in the country. For that line, and that line only, it can be worthwhile as an alternative to flying or driving among a select few destination spanning from DC to Boston. I’m sure that line accounts for some wildly disproportionate revenue for Amtrak, but in most other places people prefer to pay cheaper fares and don’t care about the surrounding quality properties enough to pay more for them.

mattkrause 7y ago
And that’s the only major part of the network where Amtrak controls the tracks. Elsewhere, it’s hamstrung by limited capacity and bad/illegal behavior by private operators. The Office of the Inspector General put together a fairly comprehensive report about this: https://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/default/files/Amtrak_Root_Causes_Final_Report_9_8_08_with_508_charts.pdf https://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/default/files/Amtrak_Root_Caus... In principle, this could easily be fixed—-and cracking down operators ignoring the preference rules did help a lot—-but people have to want it.
leetcrew 7y ago
I would disagree (or maybe you have much higher expectations than I do). I find the NE regional to be quite nice as long as you aren't trying to go all the way from boston to DC. and going up the hudson river on the empire line is simply a lovely experience.
- mlthoughts2018 7y ago
  Yeah, our preferences for what an Amtrak priced fare should provide are likely just different. I won’t ride Amtrak at all unless it’s business or first class, and typically I just buy far in advance or simply don’t travel if these fares are too high. The price for coach tickets is ludicrous to me when accounting for the crowdedness / mad dash to get seats. The last time I rode coach on NE regional lines, my girlfriend & I arrived over an hour early for the train & we had to stand up and hold our suitcases for the first 90 minutes of the ride because there were simply no seats. We walked back to front every coach car and every seat was taken and all of the luggage racks were filled. I get frazzled by hectic transportation experiences so it was especially nasty for me. For a $70-80 fare, I expect easy access to a comfortable seat, ample space for 1-2 bags / suitcases directly at my seat area, and easy ability for multiple people in the same party to get seats directly next to each other. I hate that Amtrak locks these (basic) amenities behind business & first class fares, and essentially acts like a slumlord towards their coach class service.

empath75 7y ago

The Acela is fantastic and I pretty much only use it for traveling to New York if I can expense it.

dhimes 7y ago
From Baltimore or Boston? I/we use it from Boston and recommend it.

13of40 7y ago

They have Amtrak service along the west coast, and I've taken the Seattle to Eugene and Seattle to Vancouver trains. I was unimpressed, because the maximum speed is about 80 miles per hour, like most of I-5 (edit: I mean that's effectively how fast people drive, not the speed limit), and the fare is so high you could actually rent a car for a few days instead, especially if there's more than one of you traveling. (Seattle -> Eugene, a 4 hour trip, one way starts at $78 according to their website.) I've always suspected it was a critical mass thing, and if more people used the service the price might go down, but for a self-interested individual, it just doesn't make sense right now.

leetcrew 7y ago
> I've always suspected it was a critical mass thing, and if more people used the service the price might go down, but for a self-interested individual, it just doesn't make sense right now. personally I find traveling on amtrak to be a lovely experience. even on the NE regional I usually get a whole row to myself if it isn't a holiday weekend. of course, this is probably why it's so expensive. on the other hand if the ridership went up, it wouldn't be such a nice experience anymore.
- 13of40 7y ago
  Oh, don't get me wrong: I like trains in general, and I've got many fond memories of train adventures in Europe and Asia. Amtrak can be pleasant if you're just touring around. If you're looking for a serious mode of travel, though, the train system on the west coast is a joke. It's in a weird spot where if you care about money you can take a bus and if you care about convenience you can take a plane, but if you don't care about either...take Amtrak?
FireBeyond 7y ago
> Seattle -> Eugene, a 4 hour trip The days/times when you can get through the Puget Sound, JBLM corridor in less than 2 or more hours for that segment alone are rapidly declining. It can easily take 2h+ to get from Federal Way to Olympia, even in non peak hours.

joshuaheard 7y ago

If you took out the government-imposed security check at airports, would it still be faster?

mattkrause 7y ago
It would certainly help. Dulles and Newark are still pretty far from the downtowns they serve, so there’s 30-60 minutes, plus the time to actually exit the airport, that you’re stuck with. Admittedly, Logan and LGA are a bit closer to their cities, but LGA is also terrible, so....