5 ms·

Just say no. In fact these agents have no authority to force you to submit to a search without a warrant, probable cause or a dog. Most people either don't unde

Just say no. In fact these agents have no authority to force you to submit to a search without a warrant, probable cause or a dog. Most people either don't understand that, or fear the consequences. What can happen of course is intimidation and causing you to miss the train entirely. Papers, please, may be a stereotype but one agents like these heartily believe in.

sys_64738 7y ago
Then they'll try the old "You're papers are not in order." to see how you react.
- dannyw 7y ago
  Sometimes, but not anyways. Admittedly my sample size is limited to ~3, but asserting my right to decline searches (outside of borders, where you don't get such right), have resulted in 0 searches. Usually they keep questioning you for a while, but it's not hard to respond in a way that doesn't give them probable cause.
  - darth_skywalker 7y ago
    >> Usually they keep questioning you for a while, but it's not hard to respond in a way that doesn't give them probable cause. You should try exercising your fifth amendment right to remain silent. The police explicitly remind people who are arrested that anything they say "can and will" be used against them in a court of law.
    - yardie 7y ago
      Most people want to talk there way out of a bad situation. Like the police will Mirandize them and they still won't shut up! Dude! shut up, weight for your lawyer, and under no circumstance waive your right to a speedy trial until you have counsel.
      - acollins1331 7y ago
        This generic advice isn't always the best one. Only do this if you're actually guilty and they can't come up with PC. You have to play it by ear, I've talked my way out of more than a few tickets by just getting a sympathetic police officer, if I had annoyed him by doing the 5th I'm sure he would've just written a ticket etc.
        jdpedrie 7y ago
        A ticket is a vastly different situation than one in which you could be subject to criminal prosecution. If I say something dumb which causes me to not be able to get a ticket dismissed, I'm out a hundred and fifty bucks. If I say something stupid that causes me to get convicted of a felony...
  - ralphc 7y ago
    Wife & I have started watching LivePD. The big thing with the police is "be honest with me and I can be lenient", and a lot of times they are, at least on TV. So the suspect says what's in the car.
empath75 7y ago
The dog will alert on who they want it to alert on.
- yardie 7y ago
  I've had the fuzz try "the dog" on me in the past. As a living creature the dog is rarely where they need it to be. Knowing my rights, and also knowing I'm not holding, I just repeat over and over again, "am I being detained. Am I free to go?" That usually clues them in I know the law just enough to cause them problems and they go away. Typically the only probable cause they have is their own racist bias and once I point that out, a hit dog will holler.
  - imglorp 7y ago
    I've always wondered how dog hits are seen by courts as different from officer testimony. Of course they're well trained and qualified and accurate, one would hope. But they can also get a subtle cue off the handler to simply sit because they've learned it's expected. So back in court, you're back to officer testimony that they did or didn't cue the dog to show a hit; it might even be subconscious. If that's the case, the dog isn't neutral and might as well be skipped as theater.
    - allset_ 7y ago
      They're quite inaccurate in fact. They barely have a 50% ratio. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/08/04/federal-appeals-court-drug-dog-thats-barely-more-accurate-than-a-coin-flip-is-good-enough/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/08/04/...
- tantalor 7y ago
  According to the article the agents don't have dogs
- pavel_lishin 7y ago
  But they have to go and get the dog. They can't just pull one out of a pocket, and a dog can only work so many hours - fewer than a human. And in any case, so what? If that's the attitude we take to overreaches, why not just pre-emptively empty our pockets at any patrolling law enforcement officer?
13of40 7y ago
It's weird that the first thing they teach you in Drug Courier 101 isn't "don't consent to a search, Dummy, you've got a brick of cocaine on you". And then a few rounds of role play just to be sure.

sys_64738 7y ago

Then they'll try the old "You're papers are not in order." to see how you react.

dannyw 7y ago
Sometimes, but not anyways. Admittedly my sample size is limited to ~3, but asserting my right to decline searches (outside of borders, where you don't get such right), have resulted in 0 searches. Usually they keep questioning you for a while, but it's not hard to respond in a way that doesn't give them probable cause.
- darth_skywalker 7y ago
  >> Usually they keep questioning you for a while, but it's not hard to respond in a way that doesn't give them probable cause. You should try exercising your fifth amendment right to remain silent. The police explicitly remind people who are arrested that anything they say "can and will" be used against them in a court of law.
  - yardie 7y ago
    Most people want to talk there way out of a bad situation. Like the police will Mirandize them and they still won't shut up! Dude! shut up, weight for your lawyer, and under no circumstance waive your right to a speedy trial until you have counsel.
    - acollins1331 7y ago
      This generic advice isn't always the best one. Only do this if you're actually guilty and they can't come up with PC. You have to play it by ear, I've talked my way out of more than a few tickets by just getting a sympathetic police officer, if I had annoyed him by doing the 5th I'm sure he would've just written a ticket etc.
      - jdpedrie 7y ago
        A ticket is a vastly different situation than one in which you could be subject to criminal prosecution. If I say something dumb which causes me to not be able to get a ticket dismissed, I'm out a hundred and fifty bucks. If I say something stupid that causes me to get convicted of a felony...
- ralphc 7y ago
  Wife & I have started watching LivePD. The big thing with the police is "be honest with me and I can be lenient", and a lot of times they are, at least on TV. So the suspect says what's in the car.

empath75 7y ago

The dog will alert on who they want it to alert on.

yardie 7y ago
I've had the fuzz try "the dog" on me in the past. As a living creature the dog is rarely where they need it to be. Knowing my rights, and also knowing I'm not holding, I just repeat over and over again, "am I being detained. Am I free to go?" That usually clues them in I know the law just enough to cause them problems and they go away. Typically the only probable cause they have is their own racist bias and once I point that out, a hit dog will holler.
- imglorp 7y ago
  I've always wondered how dog hits are seen by courts as different from officer testimony. Of course they're well trained and qualified and accurate, one would hope. But they can also get a subtle cue off the handler to simply sit because they've learned it's expected. So back in court, you're back to officer testimony that they did or didn't cue the dog to show a hit; it might even be subconscious. If that's the case, the dog isn't neutral and might as well be skipped as theater.
  - allset_ 7y ago
    They're quite inaccurate in fact. They barely have a 50% ratio. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/08/04/federal-appeals-court-drug-dog-thats-barely-more-accurate-than-a-coin-flip-is-good-enough/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/08/04/...
tantalor 7y ago
According to the article the agents don't have dogs
pavel_lishin 7y ago
But they have to go and get the dog. They can't just pull one out of a pocket, and a dog can only work so many hours - fewer than a human. And in any case, so what? If that's the attitude we take to overreaches, why not just pre-emptively empty our pockets at any patrolling law enforcement officer?

13of40 7y ago

It's weird that the first thing they teach you in Drug Courier 101 isn't "don't consent to a search, Dummy, you've got a brick of cocaine on you". And then a few rounds of role play just to be sure.