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Decentralization and devolution are often confused. For instance, in the US Civil War, the splintering could be described as devolution. But it certainly wasn't
by nwah1 7y ago
Decentralization and devolution are often confused. For instance, in the US Civil War, the splintering could be described as devolution. But it certainly wasn't decentralizing power to the slaves. Which side was the side of "decentralization?" It's almost a meaningless question, unless being very well defined.
Obviously, the Pareto Principle is usually at work, even if protocols are decentralized by design. Email is decentralized by design, but centralized in practice.
Even if one were to capture political control and attempt to redesign governance to be decentralized, there would still be a type of natural selection process for systems which seek to reproduce and expand, by all possible means including violence.
And decentralization and non-violence are also different, as well. Decentralized collective violence is common.
- sweeneyrod 7y ago> Email is decentralized by design, but centralized in practice. Why do you say that? I see email as an example of very successful decentralisation. GMail etc. have a large share of the market but they don't dominate it, and the different providers interoperate very well.
- nwah1 7y agoMost markets exhibit oligopolistic competition, and email is no exception. Google controls the most, yes, but they aren't the only ones to consider. The number of competitors who are significant players are only a handful. The top 5 providers likely account for the overwhelming majority of all email. Email being an open protocol allows interoperability and lowers barriers to entry, and all of that is good, but power is still concentrated into the hands of a few players nonetheless.
- AJ007 7y agoYes, for example even though gmail dominates, some percentage of users are using other clients. They’ve tried to push users to the gmail client with extra features like automatic sorting, but mostly it’s been a pain in the ass. We’ve experienced some fake outs with applications like Twitter and Slack which first appeared they were going to allow other clients, and then closed off their systems when reaching a point they didn’t think they needed them anymore.
- sweeneyrod 7y ago> The top 5 providers likely account for the overwhelming majority of all email. I don't think this is true. At least, it wasn't true in 2016 according to this (https://email-verify.my-addr.com/list-of-most-popular-email-domains.php https://email-verify.my-addr.com/list-of-most-popular-email-...), these figures (https://emailclientmarketshare.com https://emailclientmarketshare.com) for email clients in 2019 don't suggest a massive change, and anecdotally it seems unlikely -- a lot of people use addresses from university or work. Certainly it is more centralised than say the automotive industry. But it seems much more similar to that than operating systems, browsers, social networks etc..
- vageli 7y ago> > The top 5 providers likely account for the overwhelming majority of all email. I don't think this is true. At least, it wasn't true in 2016 according to this (https://email-verify.my-addr.com/list-of-most-popular-email-... https://email-verify.my-addr.com/list-of-most-popular-email-...), these figures (https://emailclientmarketshare.com https://emailclientmarketshare.com) for email clients in 2019 don't suggest a massive change, and anecdotally it seems unlikely -- a lot of people use addresses from university or work. > Certainly it is more centralised than say the automotive industry. But it seems much more similar to that than operating systems, browsers, social networks etc.. But those addresses from university or work are increasingly just gsuite deployments.
- nostrademons 7y agoA lot are still on Outlook. You might be surprised at the degree to which Microsoft still dominates enterprise IT.
- vageli 7y agoI have experienced this firsthand in enterprise :) However, I think the tide is turning with universities. Enterprise will be longer I think largely because of Excel (so might as well have O365, might as well add Outlook, etc).
- rhizome 7y ago>The top 5 providers likely account for the overwhelming majority of all email. >Email being an open protocol allows interoperability and lowers barriers to entry, and all of that is good, but power is still concentrated into the hands of a few players nonetheless. Power? In email? How exactly is that power exercised? What effect does 5 providers accounting for a majority of email have? As far as I can tell, it has only caused too much HTML email.
- nyolfen 7y ago>For instance, in the US Civil War, the splintering could be described as devolution. But it certainly wasn't decentralizing power to the slaves. it was decentralizing in the sense that secession was meant to grant political authority to local elites. 'devolution' just sounds like a moral judgment, which while fair is not very useful for these purposes.
- mikeash 7y agoIn what way does it sound like a moral judgement?
- nyolfen 7y agodevolution implies a return to a previous, lower level of sophistication. since the US was not previously split into two regional political structures, it's not an accurate descriptor, so it sounds more like an attack on the legitimacy of such an order. critiques of the legitimacy of the confederacy are typically moral in nature.
- mikeash 7y agoI thought it just meant to delegate power from a higher level of government to more local governments. I don’t recall ever seeing it used to imply any sort of backward movement.