2 ms·

Thank you, that was an incredibly insightful reply. It would probably be easier for me to gain entry via the software aspect, however I'm leaning towards the ha

Thank you, that was an incredibly insightful reply. It would probably be easier for me to gain entry via the software aspect, however I'm leaning towards the hardware aspect as you described above. So, to give a solid answer to your question above, I'd choose "between" (or even just hardware). Books on this subject matter seem relatively obscure though. Perhaps I shouldn't look for "forensics" books, but rather just detailed books on some of these devices and how they work. Your explanation of the emotional toll taken is especially insightful and makes me even more intrigued. Admittedly though, I didn't think people working in computer forensics would witness or have to work on situations involving brutal or violent crimes; not that it would deter me from pursuing the career. I imagined it mostly comprised of corporate crimes. I did read about people having to deal with things like "snuff films" or child pornography; I can imagine people becoming jaded and having a cynical outlook on humanity after working on things like that.

jcr 16y ago
It seems you already realize your degree in CS will not prepare you for electrical engineering and analysis of hardware. On the bright side, your CS degree will (should) provide a good knowledge of fundamental logic, mathematics and algorithm design, so it is always helpful. For example, you may be required to write code to automate electronic test equipment to gather results on a piece of hardware you're scrutinizing, and then, of course, you'll need to write even more code to analyze the result datum. If you really want to specialize in hardware forensics, getting an EE degree, or even a minor, will be very beneficial. Personally, I never bothered to get an EE degree, and the gaps in my EE knowledge are something I stumble over far more regularly than I'd like to admit. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single autodidact that is a good electrical engineer. The only exception would possibly be Bob Davis of IEEE fame but only with a caveat; he simply skipped a 4-year EE degree and went straight for a masters (MSEE). ;-) I do not mean to offend you but if you believe "corporate crime" is somehow victimless, then you are naive and you are in for a very rude awakening. It is a very common misconception so don't be too embarrassed by your oversight. I had the very same misconception when I started. Always remember that you are dealing with real crimes, real victims, and real criminals. The manner in which you respond (incidence response) and the manner in which you handle the situation (evidence handling) can either make or break the case against the perpetrator. You will often be working directly with law enforcement, or even be a law enforcement professional yourself. Like any law enforcement professional, you will be running a risk to both yourself and your family. Criminals are dangerous. I strongly encourage you to take the time to talk to officers and agents about their careers. Even an every-day "street cop" can teach you far more about the crimes they must face than you might ever want to know. As mentioned before, the first thing you need to learn is whether or not forensics is the kind of career you really want, but the second thing you need to learn is whether or not you are actually cut out for the job... http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/01/csi-google-winning-murder-convictions-with-search-engine-data.ars http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/01/csi-google-w... That's just a recent headline I read yesterday, and even though it's murder, it's tame by comparison to some of the crimes you will face with in forensics. Even if you have the dedication to acquire all the needed technical skills, you may not have the required personality and fortitude to do the work. The third thing you should learn is proper incident response and evidence handling. When you know enough to avoid the mistakes destroying the case of the prosecution, then you can potentially do technical volunteer work with a branch of your local law enforcement. Be prepared for law enforcement to do background and reference checks on you, even as a volunteer. Law enforcement always needs technical help, and volunteering is a good way to get the experience needed to ascertain if you're fit for the job. Talk to your local police department, FBI, Secret Service and most of all, District Attorney offices. The uber elite world of rainbows and ponies regularly depicted by famous computer "security" folks fails entirely the moment you mention the f-word (forensics). It might come as a surprise, but I do not mean to discourage you. Instead, I'm encouraging you to make an informed and intentional decision.
- rorry_Breaker 16y ago
  Well thanks for the encouragement; this is really only increasing my enthusiasm. I never meant to say that corporate crimes are victimless in any way, but that I was under the impression that computer forensics had a relatively low involvement with "brutal crimes" as you described in your post before last, and a significant involvement with white collar crimes. Of course, there are exceptions just as that interesting story you linked; but admittedly I know very little about this as I've never worked in this field myself nor do I personally know anyone that has. Sometimes people's expectations are far from the reality of a thing, like some students first realization of what computer science really is. I take no offense at all. Speaking of that story you linked, I was wondering how they knew it was him who made those search queries, perhaps they somehow found out where she was during the time the searches where made. When I finished reading it though, I didn't find myself disagreeing with the verdict --especially considering the evidence of suffocation. Seems a bit unlikely she'd be able to fake that. I never knew the agencies you named were so accepting to volunteers. I would have thought they would act suspicious of people volunteering --especially for a line of work that carries such a gloomy stigma (what kind of person would want to do this work and why?). So, thanks for the heads up, and I will definitely look into that. It sounds as if you fall into the "between" category yourself. Do you find one (software vs hardware) more enjoyable than the other?
  - jcr 16y ago
    > I was wondering how they knew it was him who made those search queries It seems you didn't read page #2 of the article which discusses the timing analysis of the evidence. Tsk Tsk Tsk ;-) > especially for a line of work that carries such a gloomy stigma It is doing very good and very important work. It is doing the right thing. It is benefiting society. It is making a difference. It is preforming service. The fact that it happens to be far more difficult than most would ever imagine only makes it that much more important. Though it can be a very tough job at times, it is also very rewarding, even if you're just a lowly "volunteer" doing the time consuming menial tasks. If you consider it gloomy and depressing, it will be. If you consider it rewarding and gratifying, it will be (well, at least most of the time). The choice is yours. > what kind of person would want to do this work and why? Ask street cops. Ask detectives. Ask FBI/SS agents. Ask district attorneys. ... One of my favorite people on the planet to talk to is a retired detective from the deep South. He spent 40 years on the force, but even now, he still does volunteer work. He's a self-proclaimed "techtard" but some of the work he does is actually quite technical. We got to be friends because I helped him with understanding tech, and he helped me with understanding everything else. I definitely got the better half of that deal. --The amount I've learned from him over the years simply cannot be measured. > I never knew the agencies you named were so accepting to volunteers. They are not very accepting of volunteers, and there are tons of rules regarding volunteers, so it can be a real hassle for them. The thing is, if they know you are truly interested in pursuing a career in some aspect of law enforcement, then they understand your situation all too well. At one point in their life, they were in the exact same situation. > I would have thought they would act suspicious of people volunteering Yes. They will be suspicious and more importantly, they should be suspicious. You must anticipate their reaction. Make it exceedingly easy for them to do whatever background and reference checks they deem necessary. Be helpful, be honest, and be patient. It will take time. You need to be OK with always being under greater scrutiny than others. It happens if you're a volunteer. Even if you are fully vetted, it happens a whole lot more if you prove yourself to be "frighteningly talented" in some technical discipline. Needless to say, it doesn't take much to frighten non-technical people. If you happen to extremely good at something, even your technical peers will at least think, if not directly say, "I'm really glad he's one of the good guys." I'm definitely tired, and probably rambling. My email address is in my profile if you'd prefer to continue this off-site.

jcr 16y ago

It seems you already realize your degree in CS will not prepare you for electrical engineering and analysis of hardware. On the bright side, your CS degree will (should) provide a good knowledge of fundamental logic, mathematics and algorithm design, so it is always helpful. For example, you may be required to write code to automate electronic test equipment to gather results on a piece of hardware you're scrutinizing, and then, of course, you'll need to write even more code to analyze the result datum. If you really want to specialize in hardware forensics, getting an EE degree, or even a minor, will be very beneficial. Personally, I never bothered to get an EE degree, and the gaps in my EE knowledge are something I stumble over far more regularly than I'd like to admit. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single autodidact that is a good electrical engineer. The only exception would possibly be Bob Davis of IEEE fame but only with a caveat; he simply skipped a 4-year EE degree and went straight for a masters (MSEE). ;-) I do not mean to offend you but if you believe "corporate crime" is somehow victimless, then you are naive and you are in for a very rude awakening. It is a very common misconception so don't be too embarrassed by your oversight. I had the very same misconception when I started. Always remember that you are dealing with real crimes, real victims, and real criminals. The manner in which you respond (incidence response) and the manner in which you handle the situation (evidence handling) can either make or break the case against the perpetrator. You will often be working directly with law enforcement, or even be a law enforcement professional yourself. Like any law enforcement professional, you will be running a risk to both yourself and your family. Criminals are dangerous. I strongly encourage you to take the time to talk to officers and agents about their careers. Even an every-day "street cop" can teach you far more about the crimes they must face than you might ever want to know. As mentioned before, the first thing you need to learn is whether or not forensics is the kind of career you really want, but the second thing you need to learn is whether or not you are actually cut out for the job... http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/01/csi-google-winning-murder-convictions-with-search-engine-data.ars http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/01/csi-google-w... That's just a recent headline I read yesterday, and even though it's murder, it's tame by comparison to some of the crimes you will face with in forensics. Even if you have the dedication to acquire all the needed technical skills, you may not have the required personality and fortitude to do the work. The third thing you should learn is proper incident response and evidence handling. When you know enough to avoid the mistakes destroying the case of the prosecution, then you can potentially do technical volunteer work with a branch of your local law enforcement. Be prepared for law enforcement to do background and reference checks on you, even as a volunteer. Law enforcement always needs technical help, and volunteering is a good way to get the experience needed to ascertain if you're fit for the job. Talk to your local police department, FBI, Secret Service and most of all, District Attorney offices. The uber elite world of rainbows and ponies regularly depicted by famous computer "security" folks fails entirely the moment you mention the f-word (forensics). It might come as a surprise, but I do not mean to discourage you. Instead, I'm encouraging you to make an informed and intentional decision.

rorry_Breaker 16y ago
Well thanks for the encouragement; this is really only increasing my enthusiasm. I never meant to say that corporate crimes are victimless in any way, but that I was under the impression that computer forensics had a relatively low involvement with "brutal crimes" as you described in your post before last, and a significant involvement with white collar crimes. Of course, there are exceptions just as that interesting story you linked; but admittedly I know very little about this as I've never worked in this field myself nor do I personally know anyone that has. Sometimes people's expectations are far from the reality of a thing, like some students first realization of what computer science really is. I take no offense at all. Speaking of that story you linked, I was wondering how they knew it was him who made those search queries, perhaps they somehow found out where she was during the time the searches where made. When I finished reading it though, I didn't find myself disagreeing with the verdict --especially considering the evidence of suffocation. Seems a bit unlikely she'd be able to fake that. I never knew the agencies you named were so accepting to volunteers. I would have thought they would act suspicious of people volunteering --especially for a line of work that carries such a gloomy stigma (what kind of person would want to do this work and why?). So, thanks for the heads up, and I will definitely look into that. It sounds as if you fall into the "between" category yourself. Do you find one (software vs hardware) more enjoyable than the other?
- jcr 16y ago
  > I was wondering how they knew it was him who made those search queries It seems you didn't read page #2 of the article which discusses the timing analysis of the evidence. Tsk Tsk Tsk ;-) > especially for a line of work that carries such a gloomy stigma It is doing very good and very important work. It is doing the right thing. It is benefiting society. It is making a difference. It is preforming service. The fact that it happens to be far more difficult than most would ever imagine only makes it that much more important. Though it can be a very tough job at times, it is also very rewarding, even if you're just a lowly "volunteer" doing the time consuming menial tasks. If you consider it gloomy and depressing, it will be. If you consider it rewarding and gratifying, it will be (well, at least most of the time). The choice is yours. > what kind of person would want to do this work and why? Ask street cops. Ask detectives. Ask FBI/SS agents. Ask district attorneys. ... One of my favorite people on the planet to talk to is a retired detective from the deep South. He spent 40 years on the force, but even now, he still does volunteer work. He's a self-proclaimed "techtard" but some of the work he does is actually quite technical. We got to be friends because I helped him with understanding tech, and he helped me with understanding everything else. I definitely got the better half of that deal. --The amount I've learned from him over the years simply cannot be measured. > I never knew the agencies you named were so accepting to volunteers. They are not very accepting of volunteers, and there are tons of rules regarding volunteers, so it can be a real hassle for them. The thing is, if they know you are truly interested in pursuing a career in some aspect of law enforcement, then they understand your situation all too well. At one point in their life, they were in the exact same situation. > I would have thought they would act suspicious of people volunteering Yes. They will be suspicious and more importantly, they should be suspicious. You must anticipate their reaction. Make it exceedingly easy for them to do whatever background and reference checks they deem necessary. Be helpful, be honest, and be patient. It will take time. You need to be OK with always being under greater scrutiny than others. It happens if you're a volunteer. Even if you are fully vetted, it happens a whole lot more if you prove yourself to be "frighteningly talented" in some technical discipline. Needless to say, it doesn't take much to frighten non-technical people. If you happen to extremely good at something, even your technical peers will at least think, if not directly say, "I'm really glad he's one of the good guys." I'm definitely tired, and probably rambling. My email address is in my profile if you'd prefer to continue this off-site.