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I find it concerning that a money-grubbing Perl script, which basically just reinvents `xargs -P`, would be allowed to become an official GNU project. It reflec

by jart 7y ago

I find it concerning that a money-grubbing Perl script, which basically just reinvents `xargs -P`, would be allowed to become an official GNU project. It reflects poorly on GNU. It undermines trust in the Free Software movement. It erases the contributions of folks like Larry Wall, along with the other unsung heroes in open source, whose good works made it possible for this misguided author to print a message pleading for citations.

eesmith 7y ago
I know the principles of the GNU project, and see nothing in the Four Freedoms or the other ideals which is in opposition to this sort of behavior. Surely Stallman knows them better than you or I, and he is not opposed. What is the concern you have? Why does it reflect poorly? How does it undermine trust? What is the trust you have in the Free Software Movement that I don't have and don't think exists? (Perhaps you are a source of 'license drama' that you complained about at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20693660 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20693660 ?) https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/money-grubbing https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/money... says "someone who is money-grubing has money as their main interest and does anything possible to get a lot of it." There is no indication that that term applies here. If I am underpaid in my job position, and ask my boss for a raise, am I money-grubbing? Your "basically just reinvents", is yet another overly dismissive term. A cursory look of the documentation shows many things which are far beyond what a simple xargs-reinvention would do. In any case so what? Look at how many other GNU tools are "just reinventions" of standard Unix tools. Larry Wall is not an "unsung hero" of open source. Do you seriously think Wall has a problem with this? I mean, look at how many commercial packages there are/were which are based on Perl, and not made open source/free software. If it's okay for companies to make loads of money, based on free and open source software, what's wrong with the free software developer also making loads of money? Or asking for citations?
- jart 7y ago
  It's unusual aberrant behavior for an official GNU project to have its default behavior be printing a banner asking for citations and $30,000 cheques for just one guy. You don't speak for Richard Stallman. I'm sure once this is brought to the attention of the right folks at GNU, the situation will be addressed appropriately. All the other GNU tools I've seen use the startup message to plug the movement as a whole, and explain how its principles benefit you as a user.
  - eesmith 7y ago
    I infer that you didn't follow the link after "More about funding GNU Parallel and the citation notice:" to https://www.gnu.org/software/parallel/parallel_design.html#Citation-notice https://www.gnu.org/software/parallel/parallel_design.html#C... where the GNU parallel documentation says: "As the request for citation is not a legal requirement this is acceptable under GPLv3 and cleared with Richard M. Stallman himself." That is why I wrote 'Surely Stallman knows them better than you or I, and he is not opposed.' Not because I'm trying to "speak for" Stallman, but because I trust Ole Tange is not lying by writing that in the documentation. That also why I'm sure that this has been "brought to the attention of the right folks at GNU". If not, that lie has been around for years, with no one catching it. Why are you so sure it will be otherwise?

by jart 7y ago

eesmith 7y ago

I know the principles of the GNU project, and see nothing in the Four Freedoms or the other ideals which is in opposition to this sort of behavior. Surely Stallman knows them better than you or I, and he is not opposed. What is the concern you have? Why does it reflect poorly? How does it undermine trust? What is the trust you have in the Free Software Movement that I don't have and don't think exists? (Perhaps you are a source of 'license drama' that you complained about at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20693660 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20693660 ?) https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/money-grubbing https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/money... says "someone who is money-grubing has money as their main interest and does anything possible to get a lot of it." There is no indication that that term applies here. If I am underpaid in my job position, and ask my boss for a raise, am I money-grubbing? Your "basically just reinvents", is yet another overly dismissive term. A cursory look of the documentation shows many things which are far beyond what a simple xargs-reinvention would do. In any case so what? Look at how many other GNU tools are "just reinventions" of standard Unix tools. Larry Wall is not an "unsung hero" of open source. Do you seriously think Wall has a problem with this? I mean, look at how many commercial packages there are/were which are based on Perl, and not made open source/free software. If it's okay for companies to make loads of money, based on free and open source software, what's wrong with the free software developer also making loads of money? Or asking for citations?

jart 7y ago
It's unusual aberrant behavior for an official GNU project to have its default behavior be printing a banner asking for citations and $30,000 cheques for just one guy. You don't speak for Richard Stallman. I'm sure once this is brought to the attention of the right folks at GNU, the situation will be addressed appropriately. All the other GNU tools I've seen use the startup message to plug the movement as a whole, and explain how its principles benefit you as a user.
- eesmith 7y ago
  I infer that you didn't follow the link after "More about funding GNU Parallel and the citation notice:" to https://www.gnu.org/software/parallel/parallel_design.html#Citation-notice https://www.gnu.org/software/parallel/parallel_design.html#C... where the GNU parallel documentation says: "As the request for citation is not a legal requirement this is acceptable under GPLv3 and cleared with Richard M. Stallman himself." That is why I wrote 'Surely Stallman knows them better than you or I, and he is not opposed.' Not because I'm trying to "speak for" Stallman, but because I trust Ole Tange is not lying by writing that in the documentation. That also why I'm sure that this has been "brought to the attention of the right folks at GNU". If not, that lie has been around for years, with no one catching it. Why are you so sure it will be otherwise?