4 ms·
> The app automatically matches phone numbers with the user names in the group. Chinese authorities then only need to request the owners of the phone numbers fr
by Mediterraneo10 7y ago
> The app automatically matches phone numbers with the user names in the group. Chinese authorities then only need to request the owners of the phone numbers from the local telecom service in order to learn the users’ true identities.
This is a flaw common to services that rely on phone numbers as IDs. In many countries, one cannot purchase a SIM card without showing ID (and the seller makes a photocopy of the ID to provide to the authorities). That means that there cannot be true anonymity. Know the phone number, know the person.
I am always baffled when people claim that PGP-encrypted e-mail is passé because it leaks metadata, when Signal and Telegram leak metadata too and, furthermore, metadata that can be immediately associated with a specific person in many countries.
- spondyl 7y agore: needing an ID for SIM cards, that's interesting! Here in New Zealand, I can freely purchase any prepay SIM without ID and use it straight away. Most, if not all dairies carry them too.
- est31 7y agoIn europe it's mixed: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/9ziqfi/european_countries_requiring_registration_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/9ziqfi/european_cou...
- vinay427 7y agoI recently visited what is apparently a prepaid-SIM-without-ID island of the Czech Republic, accustomed to places where registration is required. The person in the telecom store selling me the SIM looked at me with an almost disarming "this is the Czech Republic" look when I asked if she needed to see my passport. In Germany you now apparently need to show ID and provide an address, though no proof of residence so any address seems acceptable.
- n_ary 7y agoIn Germany, I need to do PostIdent or handover my address+copy of my ID/passport to buy a SIM card. To further check things, telecom sends letters to corresponding address too sometimes.
- dannyw 7y agoNot over the border in Australia.
- terrywang 7y agoNot the same crossing the Tasman sea. It's mixed in Australia. One can only have 5 pre-paid mobile numbers under 1 name (activation limit). However, you can still buy SIM packs from supermarkets or convenient stores, not sure if activation requires ID, it may depend on provider. NZ is obviously loose due to large number of tourists, I reckon. So easy to get SIM cards, I've got 2 (spark and 2 degrees). US also requires ID to get SIM last time I was in bay area (2016).
- paranoidrobot 7y ago> not sure if activation requires ID Pretty sure they all do. I've used prepaid on all the major carriers and bigger MVNOs and I needed to give some form of ID to the signup process.
- codedokode 7y agoIn Russia one cannot (in theory; actually it's possible sometimes). In Japan an ID is required as far as I know.
- inferiorhuman 7y agoIn Japan ID is required for voice service, but I think not for data only.
- ubercow13 7y agoYou can't sign up for Signal with a data only SIM
- PTcartelsLOL 7y agoYes, you can. Data only SIM cards can receive SMS's. At least in Portugal they do.
- ubercow13 7y agoOh, interesting. I don’t think they can in Japan
- hiq 7y agoI can confirm that you don't need an ID for data only in Japan.
- ddeck 7y agoThe same is true in Hong Kong, no ID required. You can even purchase cards without ID that also work in Mainland China and aren't subject to the great firewall.
- turkeytotal 7y agoVOIP numbers are much more anon-accessible. You can buy a ready to go google account with voice enabled if you know where to look.
- shadowprofile77 7y agoand where might one look?
- ossguy 7y agoAnyone can get a phone number anonymously from https://jmp.chat/ https://jmp.chat/ if they like. JMP lets you signup over Tor, and after the free trial you can pay in Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies to keep the number.
- dmix 7y agoYou also don't need to use these private numbers with friends, keep your main number and just use this or some voip number for stuff you want private. The problem is this would both a) need to be used by Signal as the primary number ID b) your friend would need to know this separate number just for chat (unless you also use it for calls and other stuff then no biggie) Of course this also kills new friend discovery, which is probably not needed by most. I haven't tried using SIP on my phone app while simultaneously having a SIM number so I'm not sure Signal can be routed through an arbitrary number on your phone. But I could be wrong. Maybe someone else knows?
- codedokode 7y agoFurthermore, a phone number allows the government to determine rough location in real time or see an archive of previous locations for several months. Also, in some countries (guess which) all SMS messages and phone calls are recorded and stored for at least 6 months. It is dangerous to use such messengers like Signal (or Telegram) with a real phone number.
- Vinnl 7y agoOnly if you're actually actively using a SIM card with that phone number, no?
- dmix 7y agoUnless of course you don't tie your real identity to your phone plan or more accurately your IMEI. Which I've done personally for many years. They won't tell you it's possible at the stores but they don't ask questions if you say you forgot your drivers licence at home.
- ubercow13 7y agoAs stated above, in many countries you have to by law
- dmix 7y agoDidn't say it was, but the ones requiring IDs are more the exception than the rule, meaning hundreds of millions of people, and hardly anyone knows to do it so it's worth mentioning. Fortunately that's not the only identity separation you can create, which IMO is as or more important day to day than encryption and other technical solutions. But nothing beats limiting government power through policy which seems to unpopular these last few decades.
- ubercow13 7y agoIs it the exception? Every country I’ve bought a SIM card in recently has required a passport or ID